You have a good point about the teamwork component. I liked it better when
the judges roamed around anonymously among the teams and took notes during
the day. This was much more representative of the teamwork that exist among
the kids. I am not sure why they changed it. It also added another
schedule issue for tournaments when we have to go to a room to have teamwork
judged.
Rusty
-----Original Message-----
From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Ginny Echelberger
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:54 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] FW: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback
sheets
Thank you Donna!!! Thank you Rusty!!! Thank You Nick!!!
I believe this comment about the direction of FLL can be applied to of the
"Instant Challenge" element in the Teamwork Judging also. How does that
explain all that the team went through to get to the competition? When these
kids grow up and go for a job interview where they have to elaborate on
their skills in working with others, will they get a similar test or will
they need to articulate their strengths and listen to the interviewer? If
they have a chance to reflect on their journey from beginning to end,
including the bumps in the road, they will amaze themselves.
I, personally, really like the Research project especially if we can put the
kids in touch with professionals in the field and with people who might
benefit from their research right there in their own community. It needs to
be a nonpolitical topic--by that I mean, the real science needs to be the
emphasis. I want my kids to be able to research and draw their own
conclusions based on the critical thinking skills that they develop. My past
teams have spoken with professors and architects. They have presented for
high schoolers when they chose the topic of using nanotechnology products to
prevent hearing loss caused by use of earbuds with high sound levels. When
they do the research and organize it to present to people other than their
teacher, coach or parents, it takes on much more meaning.
And, yes, the kids should definitely do the build and programming. That is
what makes them love FLL.
Ginny Echelberger
-----Original Message-----
From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Swayne, Nick
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:33 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] FW: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback
sheets
Rusty/All,
I agree 100%. The needs of the team members differ from year to year and
from team to team, but the kids should do the work as well as the
mission/rule/constraint analysis. I have built prototypes to demonstrate a
concept, but I make them "coarse" so they only convey the concept and not
the final product. My team surprised me this year with a couple of designs
that I didn't think were possible - and they take a lot of pride in
reminding me of my doubts.
I am very disappointed in the OM/DI direction many of the project
presentations have taken - particularly for Division 2. I'm not sure if
that's the consensus of the league but I would definitely like to see us
move away from the OM/DI format.
On 12/11/08 11:11 AM, "Rusty West" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I want to take a second to present MY OPINION and I don't mean to preach.
This is just for others to consider when planning for next year.
I do agree with you and after 8 years as an FLL Division 2 coach I am sure
your philosophy is the right way to go. I now have former team members in
college, studying engineering, who come back and tell me how FLL helped
them. I can do the programming and build but I NEVER NEVER NEVER touch the
robot or the keyboard for programming. I don't even carry it around at the
competitions. At the state competition I saw coaches helping to build on
the robot and typing the programming without any kids standing around.
Those team members were missing out on a learning moment because their coach
was doing the work. In the technical room my kids told the judges that I
had told them I was a "FACILITATOR" in practice and they had never seen me
put two Legos together. I only answer a question with another question that
will help guide them to find the answer. I know the coaches that help the
kids with building and programming have the best of intentions but they just
don't understand that mistakes and frustration are part of the learning
process. My kids can recite that " Thomas Edison had 600 failures before he
got the light bulb to work" because I preach that to them when they get
frustrated.
My other concern is that I see too much Odessy of the Mind ( OM )creeping
into FLL. Teams spend too much time on their costumes, give aways, and
other props instead of focusing on the engineering and actual science. This
is about robotics and engineering. OM is a fine competition and has it's
place. FLL should be about engineering and science, not cute costumes
( beyond t shirts ) and other fluff. I don't know of any team that couldn't
use more practice time and taking time away to do fluff means less
engineering practice time. If teams have so much extra time they should go
on to program in RobotC. I haven't gotten to that point yet with my kids
but wish I could.
I don't mean to rant, just throwing my opinion out there for consideration.
-----Original Message-----
From: vadcfll championship tournament
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Donna
Cornett
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:47 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback sheets
I only have one question - - Are the KIDS reading these emails?? I'm
retiring this year so I guess I can speak my mind without fear of
retribution :-) but everyone please remember that it is the team members who
need to know how to do these things - - not us! I couldn't run my team's
missions if my life depended on it. That is their job. Mine is to guide and
ask questions that they may not have thought of. I realize that I'm sort of
obsessed on this topic, but please, everyone, keep this in mind as you are
letting each other know how to do things that the kids need to figure out.
Sorry for the diatribe!
Donna Cornett
Gifted Specialist
Eagle Ridge Middle School
42901 Waxpool Road
Ashburn, VA 20148
571-252-2140
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______________________________________________________________
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If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
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leave the list".
______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave
the list".
If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or
leave the list".
______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".
If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".
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