Gregg:
Thanks -- my guess is that folks on this list, given their busy lives,
haven't bothered to "explore" anything I've been saying (since, after
all, it's just another "narrative" and they already have one) . . . <g>
In particular, they would need to grasp *medieval* psychology, which
is the only psychology based on "forms" (since it was invented by
Aristotle.) I have a scan of Ruth Harvey's 1975 "The Inward Wits:
Psychological Theory in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance" that is
too large to send to the list. If you are interested, just ask and I
will send you a copy . . . !!
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Inward-2DWits-2DPsychological-2DRenaissance-2DInstitute_dp_085481051X&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=NMinBKxGPiIeAkEYkzTqDGlpS65CofHugiPUCCeAjVc&s=qnXiobuOsoWG9i-ldMU8nv2Q-XQJo5bL7CbaK8WZ9pE&e=
Mark
P.S. There's a lot more where that came from. McLuhan. Aquinas.
Aristotle. And, their commentators. It's an entire library. And,
most of it is right there on your smartphone. That's how DIGITAL
works. While what I say on a mailing-list may appear as an
"narrative," 2000 years of history in the West isn't. SRIBAL:
400BC-1600AD (until it was killed by PRINT.) That means a lot of
smart people dealing with the "same" issues and coming up with very
different answers. Since "Digital retrieves the Medieval," perhaps
it's time for an education about the world in which we already live?
Quoting "Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx" <[log in to unmask]>:
> Thanks, Mark.
>
> I think folks on this list are pretty familiar with your narrative.
> As I have said, it is interesting and informative.
>
> Best,
> Gregg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tree of knowledge system discussion
> <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Mark Stahlman
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 9:59 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: World in Chaos
>
> Gregg:
>
> Hey -- glad you liked it . . . <g>
>
> This is simply what happens to people when one environment is
> replaced by another. Since the Axios folks know nothing about the
> "structures"
> that come with these psycho-technological environments (and they've
> been raised reading about "complexity"), all they can imagine is
> "chaos." Nothing could be further from the truth.
>
> Every PTE comes with its own structures. There is nothing that you
> can do about them, in terms of trying to fight against these "forms,"
> they are "hard-wired." If you don't understand these "forms," which
> is to say you don't understand Aristotle, then you are doomed to
> become a part of the Borg. Resistance is futile!
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Aristotles-2DMetaphysics-2DAristotle_dp_1888009039&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=7yL4fuTVdYdKL-puLAT2y4f2cB6nnOpx_vwHwndI6K8&s=KK6JOUCf3st4ahXbSO09cPaGvwHZS2s_pKW_JxvmYjs&e=
>
> On the other hand, if you can actually *understand* what is going
> on, then dealing with the "chaos" becomes straightforward. No, the
> Axios folks can't do that. They are up-a-creek (environmentally
> speaking) without a paddle (any understanding of PTE forms.)
>
> Another recent post on one of my lists was from John Horgan (a
> Scientific American "blogger," who I know), who has also attracted
> Gregg's interest. He is despondent about the "Dark Days." He is a
> "hippie" (who teaches "creative writing.") He has no clue what is
> going on (and doesn't want to know.) No wonder he's upset (and,
> yes, it's his own fault.)
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__blogs.scientificamerican.com_cross-2Dcheck_dark-2Ddays_&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=7yL4fuTVdYdKL-puLAT2y4f2cB6nnOpx_vwHwndI6K8&s=2F4vSJQWSYJKfwFEuvBGNL-h9qEJx4dpZIlRId8QQV8&e=
>
> "Existential crisis" is just the naive reaction to all this. It has
> happened many times before. It happened in the 60s, when TELEVISION
> took over from RADIO. "Burn, baby burn!" It happened *big time*
> when ELECTRICITY took over from PRINT in the mid-1800s. Thus,
> Nietzsche's "revaluation of all values" &c.
>
> The only person I know of who has proposed a way out of all this is
> Marshall McLuhan. That is why his work is at the heart of my Center.
>
> Marshall accomplished that by *not* coming from the usual PTE --
> which, given that he was born in 1911, would have been RADIO. But
> he grew up on the Canadian prairie and was "formed" outside of that
> environment -- a "peripheral" role he often commented about. Thus
> his, "I don't know who discovered water but it wasn't a fish."
>
> If you refuse to understand *forms*, then you are lost. If you
> insist of doubling-down on the same nonsense that got you into this
> mess (i.e. most ideas since 1850), then you are lost. If you look
> under the "streetlamp for your car-keys," then you are lost. Yes,
> most people are quite lost (thus their anxiety &c.) McLuhan called
> this "looking in the rear-view mirror."
>
> One of my favorite 50s Sci-Fi movies is "Forbidden Planet." It was
> actually a treatment of the Freudian "Monster Id" and the attempts
> to "tame it." It's where we first got "Robby the Robot," who would
> later give us "Danger, Will Robinson" -- which is just what Axios is
> saying, while flailing their arms in the air.
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Forbidden-5FPlanet&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=7yL4fuTVdYdKL-puLAT2y4f2cB6nnOpx_vwHwndI6K8&s=HGln8ysrDKXZpypdvNeXOC_uLbD2KymBs3tjH4ELIA4&e=
>
> Recently on Alexander's "Intellectual Dark Web" private-list, I
> suggested the following analogy (i.e. correspondence, not
> equivalence), based on the fact that Freud was trained (in some
> fashion) in *medieval* psychology --
>
> Id ~ Imagination
> Superego ~ Memory
>
> What if the "forms" of the ELECTRIC environment favored the "Id" and
> DIGITAL favors the "Superego"? How would that transition appear to
> people who have lived their whole lives under "Id" conditions? Just
> as it appears to people like Steve Levine of Axios and John Horgan
> of Stevens Institute?
>
> Yes, it would look like a "world in chaos" (when, in fact, it is
> simply taking on different *forms* that remain "invisible" to those
> shouting "danger") . . . !!
>
> Mark
>
> P.S. "Adapation" requires aligning with these new forms. We already
> know where it will "settle." Alas, Plato's "Good" will not help.
> Neither will mathematics or complexity. Without Aristotle, we're
> all "lost in space."
>
> Quoting "Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx" <[log in to unmask]>:
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I saw this posted to Mark’s Center for Digital Life List, and
>> thought it would be good to be shared here.
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.axios.com_new
>> sletters_axios-2Dfuture-2Ddca28385-2D9508-2D412d-2D8c1a-2Dec2189c15354
>> .html&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXY
>> DhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=7yL4fuTVdYdKL-puLAT2y4f2cB6nnOp
>> x_vwHwndI6K8&s=bhhP5RJh_uNeCIChmPjuWVxleQZOCHi80OaR1_CdYU8&e=
>>
>> It offers some good reflections on this being a very chaotic time
>> in history. I see us as being in a place of “fragmented pluralism,”
>> which is producing existential angst. And this at a time when the
>> rapid technological changes are changing us and the planet around us
>> in fundamental ways. In “experimental” terms: “take a confused and
>> interconnected talking ape and massively change the environment and
>> give them hope that anything is possible, create huge levels of status
>> inequality, change the lifestyle playing field dramatically, and then
>> see what happens. Oh, and for a kicker, as a reflection of this
>> fragmented pluralism, elect a chaotic disrupter with poor character
>> values to the most powerful job on the planet!
>>
>> Yes, flux will follow. The question is where and how will it settle.
>> Will we be able to use the disruption to chart a new, adaptive course?
>> Or will the chaos grow and grow and threaten the entire infrastructure
>> and place the world in the brink of (or in actual) catastrophe?
>>
>> Just some cheery thoughts for a Saturday morning 😊.
>>
>> Best,
>> G
>>
>>
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