A suggestion:
Perhaps, it would help if we had a brief definition, statement, or synopsis, of what:
1. John considers to be the central nature of the paradigm he is proposing.
2. Mark considers to be the central nature of: a. The new paradigm in which we find ourselves and b. The previous/old paradigm which was replaced by the new paradigm.
That way we could be reassured that we are reading, thinking, talking, and writing about the same things.
Best regards to all,
Waldemar
Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD
(Perseveret et Percipiunt)
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 10, 2018, at 10:54 AM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> Thanks much for the stimulating contributions. I will offer some thoughts soon, so that perhaps we can sort out where it is where we are standing, both as a group and as individuals who have all been on long and intense journeys trying to figure out some of the most complex problems in philosophy. I think we all have interesting things to say.
>
> Warm regards to all!
>
> Best,
> G
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 1:16 PM, Diop, Corinne Joan Martin - diopcj <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> Thank you-- and thank you also for the correction! Cantor has emerged again in a small body of work I am doing on people named Georg(e/es), so I will be sure to look into this intrigue before exhibiting/writing about it again! (The others are Braque, Gurdjieff and Sand...)
>>
>> Corinne
>> ________________________________________
>> From: tree of knowledge system discussion [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Mark Stahlman [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 2:04 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: New Paradigms
>>
>> Corrine:
>>
>> Thanks -- fascinating and beautifully done . . . !!
>>
>> Small correction, if you don't mind. Galileo's astronomy didn't
>> really "threaten" anything and his problems with the Church were quite
>> different from the usual accounts, having more to with his anti-Rome
>> Venetian backers (btw, my "godfather" Giorgio Desantillana wrote the
>> one-time "definitive" work on the topic and my father helped to design
>> what is now the Galileo Museum in Florence) and it was Cantor who
>> approached Franzelin, who pretty much blew him off (i.e. the Church
>> really didn't care what he was doing).
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Crime-2DGalileo-2DGiorgio-2DSantillana_dp_0226734811&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=Bfq1ppMS3XgQnnQpYnIZ8wC_97XYRZJRxUuB1rAMdwc&e=
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> P.S. The usual reports about G. Bruno's troubles are also mistaken.
>> It had little to do with his "heresy." In fact, as best as I can
>> tell, he was an "agent" of the English spymaster Walsingham and was
>> caught organizing against the Vatican. We often forget how much
>> "intrigue" was going on in those days and how often Rome was on the
>> receiving end (as well as dishing it out) -- plus how they were
>> finally defeated in the mid-19th century after many centuries of
>> declining influence.
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Francis-5FWalsingham&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=IYy1BIydW2s5dWUnNTYIYOmAhcjKtdkXhsxHKkAcdVo&e=
>>
>> Quoting "Diop, Corinne Joan Martin - diopcj" <[log in to unmask]>:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Just sharing some of my artwork that relates a bit :)
>>>
>>> "Sizing the Infinite, Seeking Eternity," about Georg Cantor was
>>> done in collaboration with E. Theta Brown, Associate Professor of Math
>>>
>>> Cover and pp. 11 – 16. (Photographs and essay.)
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__kapsula.ca_releases_KAPSULA-5FGOODMEASURE-5F3of3.pdf&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=BwEKKzPLdUHIfojBBcw4PN3O97YYW0fasOi23LN38O0&e=
>>>
>>>
>>> Corinne
>>>
>>> PS I have artwork about Gregg's ideas from some years ago that got
>>> buried somewhere in my studio after a move-- when I unearth it I
>>> will share!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Corinne Diop
>>> Professor of Art
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_corinne.diop.studio_&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=KwQnikKeu_aL_IJaCKzcXiouQheSnbFsIVXtYmyKCZg&e=
>>>
>>> Photography Area Head
>>> http://www.jmu.edu/artandarthistory/programs/Photography.shtml
>>>
>>> School of Art, Design, and Art History
>>> MSC 7101/ 820 S. Main St
>>> James Madison University
>>> Harrisonburg, VA 22807
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> (540) 568-6485
>>>
>>> *************
>>> JMU Safe Zone Member
>>> http://www.jmu.edu/safezone
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: tree of knowledge system discussion
>>> [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Mark Stahlman
>>> [[log in to unmask]]
>>> Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 10:13 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: New Paradigms
>>>
>>> John/Joe/Gregg &al:
>>>
>>> What Gregg has done here may be the *first* time this has ever been
>>> accomplished (or perhaps even attempted). While many have
>>> "philosophized" over all this, Gregg has actually assembled a group
>>> of experts (which decades of detailed knowledge as well as
>>> experience arguing with their domain-expert colleagues.) Hurray . .
>>> . !!
>>>
>>> Tree of Knowledge Stack
>>>
>>> Culture :: Sociology (Joe)
>>> Mind :: Psychology (Gregg)
>>> Life :: Biology (John)
>>> Matter :: Physics (???)
>>>
>>> Does the "lower" define the "upper" or are there new *principles*
>>> that must be added at each level (or what Gregg calls "dimensions of
>>> complexity") . . . ??
>>>
>>> In the 19th-century, during what was a very different paradigm from
>>> the one in which we live Bernhard Reimann suggested what some call
>>> the "hypothesis of the higher hypothesis" and Georg Cantor generated
>>> his Transfinite schema in attempts to *rigorously* tackle this
>>> conundrum. Both of them have largely been forgotten today and this
>>> was replaced with the notion of a "Theory of Everything" (ToE) and
>>> "Unity of Science" (as per Carnap &al) in the 20th-century -- as a
>>> result of the new paradigm in which those scientists lived (but not
>>> the same one as ours).
>>>
>>> "Quantum" physics caught many people's attention and, for a while,
>>> seemed to be the answer -- but then it failed to produce a ToE and
>>> dissolved into a group of rival splinters until it was revived by
>>> some "hippies" who were living under yet-another paradigm (yes, as
>>> it turns out, I know Jack Sarfatti and he is an entertaining sorta
>>> guy, whose ideas were enhanced by both some LSD and some
>>> "conspiracies" that he imagines he was a part of) . . . <g>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_How-2DHippies-2DSaved-2DPhysics-2DCounterculture_dp_039334231X&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=z21gNwg3Phhb8zDjPEWwYZZnnuOW0Vep1M486cPwhDQ&e=
>>>
>>> So much for physics -- but wait there is more! The US *military*
>>> decided it wanted to take some Los Alamos bomb-desingers and shuffle
>>> them across-the-street to a new place that was called the Santa Fe
>>> Institute, to see if the physics of nuclear weapons (i.e.
>>> mini-stars) could be applied to society. The Department of Energy
>>> (which owns the US arsenal, not the service branches) initially
>>> funded them 100% (and now it's 30% with another 30% coming from
>>> Pierre Omidyar).
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.santafe.edu_&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=AWiCJq0W3SGK9QXs99_ukwq3kcCNbrSUTQmPezjvzTE&e=
>>>
>>> The result was "complexity science" -- re-branding "chaos," since
>>> that frightens the children -- and its elaborate models of
>>> "emergence." Some of us from the Center spent last Spring with
>>> these folks (in particular, Jim Rutt, long-time chairman and now
>>> trustee at Santa Fe) and I can tell you they don't have a clue (and
>>> are unlikely to ever get one.)
>>>
>>> So, Physics as failed (multiple times). How about Biology or
>>> Psychology or Sociology? As John tells us, biology is broken. As,
>>> Gregg tells us, psychology is broken. As Joe tells us, sociology is
>>> broken. So, what are we going to do . . . ??
>>>
>>> My suggestion is that we take a look at *paradigms* behind these
>>> approaches and their causes/effects. This is the study of the
>>> "structure of scientific revolutions" (as per Thomas Kuhn, although
>>> he never explained either the causes or effects) and, to accomplish
>>> that task, we will need Marshall McLuhan -- which we will do when
>>> Gregg returns.
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Structure-2DScientific-2DRevolutions-2D50th-2DAnniversary_dp_0226458121&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=Wjt2pfZZFEZZ8hHd1Gi8N-e6L0fJp0jNpkVaXTqhbOw&e=
>>>
>>> To do this, we will have to do something that has been "forgotten"
>>> for 400+ years -- understand *formal* cause. Fortunately, Aristotle
>>> is there to help us (since he's the one who came up with this idea
>>> in the first place, 2500 years ago) and, even more fortuitously, we
>>> are now in a new paradigm (otherwise, we wouldn't be having this
>>> conversation).
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> P.S. The previous paradigm was characterized by "globalism" and what
>>> was called the "new world order" (i.e. the one that Kuhn was
>>> plumping for, as funded by the Ford Foundation) and it has now
>>> collapsed. Yes, this is what keeps Henry Kissinger awake at night.
>>> This is why Trump was elected, Briexit occured and the 5 Star
>>> Movement now runs Italy &c. This is also why we are now in another
>>> "counter-culture" (parallel to the 60s), since that's what happens
>>> to *culture* when paradigms shift (over-and-over, making its
>>> explanation a top priority for a "pure" sociology). This is the
>>> focus of my Center (and,, yes, I also know John Ralston Saul).
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Collapse-2DGlobalism-2DJ-2DR-2DSaul_dp_1786494485&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=4kvjg0j27G60OZOmJLQm4GmRSyKFwNZpRY6JwkeZ9WY&e=
>>>
>>> P.P.S. The "cheerio conspiracy" in all this is that the *center* of
>>> maintaining that now obsolete paradigm was the Government
>>> Communications Head-Quarters (GCHQ) which is the foundation of what
>>> some now call the "Deep State." Edward Snowden had a lot to say
>>> about them in terms of their acronym, "Five Eyes," making Trump's
>>> upcoming meeting with the Queen very interesting -- since the "Deep
>>> State" actually reports to her (yes, making Canada an actual
>>> national security threat) . . . !!
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Five-5FEyes&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=s3ScNTD00fGwqUNtQsPGQEQcsbcSOwQaTNEYyxaajZA&e=
>>>
>>> P.P.P.S. Since our confusion about all this has been going on for a
>>> long-time, we will have to "drop back" and try to recover what
>>> previous paradigms -- such as the "Enlightenment" &c -- have
>>> destroyed. That is the origin of the "motto" on the Center website
>>> that "Digital *retrieves* the Medieval" and, from ISIS reviving
>>> *medieval* Jihad, to the Chinese reviving the *medieval* "Silk
>>> Road," it is already the world in which we live. As Marty McKly put
>>> it, "Doc, it's time to go back to the future" . . . <g>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Back-5Fto-5Fthe-5FFuture&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=B4o24kuAh19SX2ks1cGJ_arOZDTP30QffE62ZH6ORwI&e=
>>>
>>> P.P.P.P.S. What we have to try to avoid, as difficult as it may be,
>>> is to not behave "like a drunk looking for our carkeys underneath
>>> the streetlamp, because that's where the light is." The recently
>>> past paradigms have seriously screwed us up. This is why we are in
>>> such terrible condition -- which, btw, is not the situation in
>>> China, where its historic civilization is now the focus of study at
>>> the Central Party School (where CPC cadre are trained in Beijing) --
>>> and *all* of our attempts at "coherence" have failed. But, we're in
>>> luck, Aristotle is there to help us (which is why Summer School at
>>> the Center is teaching his 4th-century BC "On the Soul".)
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Soul-2DMemory-2DRecollection-2DAristotle_dp_1888009179&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=8qMQODcDkzHIMIPWHwejYDRD8zDMlzuSjEgeHBa8lGA&s=tcrM699HyAbsXoXcHy52dE-oXdz66F8YcxXYBoZt4iY&e=
>>>
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