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October 2018

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From:
Mark Stahlman <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 8 Oct 2018 10:04:28 -0600
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Gregg:

Needless to say, for most people, their "philosophy" is superficial  
and not fundamental.  It is something they have adopted as a result of  
the psycho-technological environment in which their "behaviors and  
attitudes" have been formed.  Socrates taught us that a long time ago.

Nowadays, among "philosophers," many of these basic questions are  
once-again being widely debated -- reflecting the shift to DIGITAL.   
No, John Horgan isn't one of them (and neither are you.) And, for what  
its worth, Will Durant wasn't a historian either . . . <g>

I was initially invited to speak at the recent "XXIVth World Congress  
on Philosophy: Learning to be Human" in Beijing but couldn't go.   
Taking a look at the agenda might be helpful for you to sort out what  
the *actual* philosophers are talking about today -- particularly the  
fascinating topic of "post-humanity" (a round-table about which I was  
invited to join by the NYU group who focuses on this.)

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Posthumanism&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=O7dzx_qkMFoNo6kX1hB5wRvqlC7_Fc0kAsDunxh96Tg&s=mqkSX2FHsPirpPWPsFxAcL420q_9-zLR-ADYJslSRzo&e=

Whether "confused dualist" or "property quadism" are even relevant in  
all this is an interesting question (probably not.)  What views were  
thrown-up by ELECTRICITY (the previous paradigm) and which ones will  
be thrown-up by DIGITAL (since we are "constructed" by technology, not  
the other way around) now becomes an important one to sort out . . . !!

Mark

Quoting "Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx" <[log in to unmask]>:

> Hi Waldemar,
>
>   Great question regarding the book. Since listening to Will  
> Durant's The Story of Philosophy, I have become even more convinced  
> that what we in the academy are missing is an effective way to talk  
> about mind-body/mind-matter issues. This is the SAME basic issue  
> that has prevented the field of psychology from being a coherent  
> discipline. That is, "Mind-Body Problems" = The Problem of Psychology.
>
>   Horgan's book is useful for several reasons. First, the book is  
> free and easily available on line. Second, it is written in an easy  
> style that does not require much technical knowledge. Third, it is  
> written in a manner parallel to the Story of Philosophy, in that it  
> profiles both scholars and their ideas, a different one in each  
> chapter--a format I think is helpful and useful. That gives rise to  
> a fourth reason, namely that it is a broad treatment of the issues.  
> Fifth, I found that I could just copy and paste the chapters into a  
> word document and thus engage in running commentary of the chapter  
> in a word document and share that with others. This will allow for a  
> much more fine grained analysis of the text and clear exposition  
> regarding what is going on.
>
>    The hope is to show folks that how Horgan talks about mind-body  
> is very confused. And the way he talks is the way we talk in  
> general. So it is a great example of our common social construction  
> of these issues. As such, Horgan's style should be easily relatable,  
> and thus allow folks to empathize and "see what he sees."
>
>   Then I can use his style to show that it is his  
> linguistic/conceptual/preconceived notions about the world that  
> drives much of his confusion. That is, he has an implicit  
> metaphysical system that is revealed in how he talks about these  
> issues. To be direct about it,  Horgan is a confused dualist (as are  
> so many people). In contrast, the ToK is a coherent "property  
> quadist" view. I will be able to use him as an example of what a  
> confused dualist language game looks like and why, if you operate  
> off of that, you will indeed by confused by the mind-body problems.
>
> However, if you learn to speak ToK/UTUA, the knotty problems that  
> are all tied up in a ball when you are a confused implicit dualist  
> become loosened and clarity is achieved. That is not to say there  
> are no problems left. For example, what I call "the hard-engineering  
> problem" remains. This refers to the connection/relationship between  
> neurophysiological mechanical processes and the emergence of  
> subjective experience that are binded together in our perceptual  
> field of awareness. I do not have an answer to that problem directly  
> (although progress is being made). However, that is only one of the  
> problems that Horgan is all tangled up about. I will show how his  
> naïve dualism is working against him and how we can do better...much  
> better.
>
> Best,
> Gregg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tree of knowledge system discussion  
> <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Waldemar A Schmidt,  
> PhD, MD
> Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 9:11 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: A book club invitation to explore mind-body problems
>
> Gregg:
>
> I accept your invitation.
> May I ask, what led you to choose this particular work?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Waldemar
>
> Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD
> (Perseveret et Percipiunt)
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 7, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Mark Stahlman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Gregg:
>>
>> I know John Horgan quite well.  He is a pretty standard "hippie"  
>> who keeps reaching for hallucinogens &c as-if this was still the  
>> 1960s.  Creative writing and all that.
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__blogs.scientificamerican.com_cross-2Dcheck_yes-2Dmake-2Dpsychedelics-2Dlegally-2Davailable-2Dbut-2Ddont-2Dforget-2Dthe-2Drisks_&d=DwIBaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=s-R6M6hfOGoi0XNEPzL4ZP_EN3HsB7oqp1rr1qezSjI&s=MVELN_kfJpMKxxN0p73C4ZXWbOKPNW4LWlOcX5QenTg&e=
>>
>> Alas, that was the old paradigm.  He has no interest in the *new*  
>> one (so I will not be commenting) . . . <g>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> Quoting "Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx" <[log in to unmask]>:
>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>  I am inviting folks to join me on a book club conversation. The  
>>> book is free and on-line. It is John Horgan's Mind Body  
>>> Problems<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mindbodyproblems.com_&d=DwIBaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=s-R6M6hfOGoi0XNEPzL4ZP_EN3HsB7oqp1rr1qezSjI&s=cLOLF8DF4D-hNinQV0_ulxiDQ8I6DoFv4eGKM_Ky09Y&e=>. I have started reading it and will offer a summary of one chapter each week. The first chapter is Introduction: The Weirdness. <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mindbodyproblems.com_introduction_&d=DwIBaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=s-R6M6hfOGoi0XNEPzL4ZP_EN3HsB7oqp1rr1qezSjI&s=UYxDdWcxnEXxGa0rZAEGkNh4tcQoaGJjmpQRgZ3EMls&e=> It is not too long, just over 4,000 words. On Friday, I will offer a summary of it and some  
>>> commentary.
>>>
>>>  The book gives us an opportunity as a group to grapple with the  
>>> mind-body problem(s) and to engage in conversations about what it  
>>> is, and how we might understand it going forward. As you will see,  
>>> Horgan defines the problem very broadly. As such, it is very  
>>> relevant for a Theory Of Knowledge. And it is also quite relevant  
>>> for the ToK/UTUA framework. If the ToK/UTUA Framework is valid, it  
>>> has much to say about the mind-body problems. The nature of the  
>>> problems look very different.
>>>
>>>  I hope you will join me and chime in with your own thoughts.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Gregg
>>>
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