LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for VADCFLL-L Archives


VADCFLL-L Archives

VADCFLL-L Archives


VADCFLL-L@LISTSERV.JMU.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

VADCFLL-L Home

VADCFLL-L Home

VADCFLL-L  December 2008

VADCFLL-L December 2008

Subject:

Re: Gracious Professionalism. Is there an equal but somewhat different motto needed for girls?

From:

Debbie Brumback <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Debbie Brumback <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:04:39 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (104 lines)

Hi Kevin,
Hope you don't mind me sending my reply back to the whole group.

I don't have a conclusion.  I'm still wondering, looking for an answer in
places not always considered, and therefore, opening it up for discussion.

When I read the definition of gracious professionalism, it seems like its
about channeling the pumped up energy of guys (or girls) who are extremely
bright and confident and therefore, at risk of being too vocal and proud
about their successes.  

There is another group of potential engineers/computer scientists who are a
bit more soft spoken, such as quiet girls that can happily sit quietly in
the corner doing math problems.  They might have good ideas for engineering
or programming as well.  But, it's not in their nature or upbringing to
boldly challenge a guy with an equally good design idea.   Emphasizing the
importance of gracious professionalism doesn't challenge them at all to jump
up and defend their great idea.  Maybe "standing up for myself", as my
daughter mentioned, is implemented for them by moving into another computer
group or another degree program or choosing a professional field like music
or medicine where they are given their own students or patients and can work
independently, remain soft-spoken, and also be heard.

Another point that I've tried to make with my daughter regarding computer
science and math students, for her case she mostly has observed her brother
and other guys, is that these guys can be risk takers and gamblers. Teenage
guys often have a bit too much confident that things will turn out their
way.  Compare this to a girl that plays the violin and quilts perfect quilt
squares.  That's not a person whose is going to challenge a guy's idea and
recommend the team try it her way until she has had time to make sure her
ideas are going to work.  But, she won't have time to think through her
ideas and prepare them to be presented while the guys are already forging
ahead on their grand ideas, working every free minute on their programming
or robot, valiantly taking chances and running on a trial and error sort of
approach to finding a solution.  

I'm not saying either approach is right or wrong.  But, I do see two very
different approaches to reaching an engineering/programming solution that
might just be frustrating some girls to the point of moving into other
fields of study.  The guy's way seems to start the ball rolling earlier
leaving the girl's design idea left in the dust, even if in the end it would
have worked just as well or better.  My daughter sent her brother a Murphy's
Law poster for his birthday.  The phrase that caught her eye, having
witnessed about 4 years of lego league work, was "There's never time to do
it right but always time to do it over."  Maybe a clue to a girl approach to
problem solving versus a boy's approach?

Focusing on gracious professionalism again, its a wonderful concept that I
completely support.  I'm just asking how it applies to the girls that, well,
aren't even showing up for lego league meetings or computer science classes
in college?  I suspect many of these girls would be models of gracious
professionalism.  Yet, in order for them to be successful lego team members
or computer programmers they might need some other motto that works on
building up the very same skills that gracious professionalism is trying to
subdue in the overzealous guys.

I'm generalizing and stereotyping to make my point.  I  know there are many
girls that need to work on gracious professionalism and boys that are
already gentlemen blessed with plenty of gracious professionalism.
Debbie




>  -----Original Message-----
> From: 	KevinHines [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
> Sent:	Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:04 PM
> To:	Debbie Brumback
> Subject:	RE: [VADCFLL-L] Gracious Professionalism.  Is there an equal
> but somewhat different motto needed for girls?
> 
> Debbie,
> 
> Thank you for your post about girls in FLL & gracious professionalism.  I
> have also been thinking about posting on a related topic: how to recruit
> more girls into our FLL teams.
> 
> I appreciate you bringing up this subject; you bring up a number of
> interesting points.
> 
> I do think we, as a society, need to find ways specifically to attract and
> retain girls and women in the world of engineering and science, and FLL is
> a great way to put this into practice.
> 
> I don't actually understand what your conclusion is, regarding how the
> definition of gracious professionalism affects girls and women... and I
> would like to understand.
> 
> Is there another way to state this, so that I would understand?
> 
> If talking on the phone would work better than email, please feel free to
> call me anytime.  I want to understand.
> 
> PS - My comments are embedded in your email, below.
> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> 

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.JMU.EDU

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager