I believe your interpretation is correct but only because nowhere does the mission or the update specifically say you cannot move the penalty piece out of the runway:
GAME PENALTY
If a penalty is earned (as described here and in the Rules), the ref places a roof debris model on the west-most possible roof mark which
is completely empty. Placement is expected to be closely aligned on the mark, but may not be perfect. For penalties after the 4th, the
west-most debris is placed as far as possible into the northeast corner of the LT blue region. The robot may not remove debris from the
LT blue region.
Value: ANY IN LT BLUE.?- 13 EACH, ANY OUTSIDE LT BLUE.?- 10 EACH
31 - ROOF DEBRIS CHAOS
The referee depends on the final locations of the penalty roof debris pieces as an accounting system. Therefore: If the robot moves a roof debris piece into or out of Lt Blue, the referee will shift it back over the Lt Blue line in the direction it came from.
21 - CALCULATING ROOF PENALTIES
You can get up to eight sprawl and/or touch penalties, as represented by the roof debris on the mat. The Missions page is unclear on the following fact: Here is the cost for penalty accumulation: 1=10, 2=20, 3=30, 4=40, 5=53, 6=66, 7=79, 8=92. Sorry for the confusion. This far into the season I would normally be unable to make such a serious correction, but I trust no one was developing a penalty-based strategy.
3 - RUNWAY CONFLICT
Objects scoring in the YELLOW zone don't count as being on the runway, and won't cause the loss of your clear runway points. When roof debris is in the LT BLUE zone, same thing, it won't ruin your runway points.
While I think you are correct. it still would be nice to get clarification on the rule. If only to make sure the rules are applied consistently.
Suffice it to say, we did not understand the rule well enough yesterday so, in the end, it correctly cost 40 points (10 for the penalty and 30 for the no longer clear runway).
Lloyd O'Hara
The Crestwood Monarchs.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Ruwe
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Roof Debris & Clear runway
The rule is very clear. The roof pieces at placed at the westernmost (clear) outline on the runway. On the 5th penalty, the westernmost piece is moved to the lt blue area. If the robot clears a piece from the runway it stays off the runway. If it gets moved to the blue area the ref may move it to show it is 10 pts. not 13 but it should not placed on the runway Additionally, if an object is "in" the yellow zone, it does not block the runway, but may stop the plane from getting to the yellow or lt. blue zone Steve Ruwe Original Message===================
At our tournament today, the refs would move it back onto the runway if the robot moved it, so your mileage may vary.
Perhaps Steve will chime in on this one before states.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 10, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Lloyd O'Hara <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
good to know, I read the Update below and assumed the ref would do the same if the debris was in the runway. I guess I should not make such assumptions and I should learn to read better.
31 - ROOF DEBRIS CHAOS
The referee depends on the final locations of the penalty roof debris pieces as an accounting system. Therefore: If the robot moves a roof debris piece into or out of Lt Blue, the referee will shift it back over the Lt Blue line in the direction it came from.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Dannhardt
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Roof Debris & Clear runway
Thanks. That is what I thought. I wasn't sure if the first piece of roof debris was on the run way or not.
Mike
KA4CDN
S.L.Compulsion
On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Amy Nichols <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
You are only deducted 30 pts for the 'clear runway', if the penalty is left on the runway at the end of the 2.5 minutes. Our kids incurred a penalty, but their robot pushed it off the runway and they only lost the 10 pts.
From: First Lego League in Virginia and DC [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lloyd O'Hara
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Roof Debris & Clear runway
Having had that situation at a tournament yeasterday, I can clarify that for you. Your first touch penalty is costly, not only do you get the 10 point penalty, you also do not get the 30 points for the clear runway. Basically, the first touch penalty will cost the team 40 points.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Dannhardt
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:00 AM
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Roof Debris & Clear runway
Good morning.
I am unclear if touch penalty roof debris placed onto the runway counts against a clear runway score. (I see updates clarifying that roof debris in the Lt Blue zone specifically does not count against). Can anyone clarify for me?
Thanks,
Coach Mike
KA4CDN
S.L.Compulsion
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At our tournament today, the refs would move it back onto the runway if the robot moved it, so your mileage may vary.
Perhaps Steve will chime in on this one before states.
Brian
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 10, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Lloyd O'Hara <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
good to know, I read the Update below and assumed the ref would do the same if the debris was in the runway. I guess I should not make such assumptions and I should learn to read better.
31 - ROOF DEBRIS CHAOS
The referee depends on the final locations of the penalty roof debris pieces as an accounting system. Therefore: If the robot moves a roof debris piece into or out of Lt Blue, the referee will shift it back over the Lt Blue line in the direction it came from.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Dannhardt
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Roof Debris & Clear runway
Thanks. That is what I thought. I wasn't sure if the first piece of roof debris was on the run way or not.
Mike
KA4CDN
S.L.Compulsion
On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Amy Nichols <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
You are only deducted 30 pts for the 'clear runway', if the penalty is left on the runway at the end of the 2.5 minutes. Our kids incurred a penalty, but their robot pushed it off the runway and they only lost the 10 pts.
From: First Lego League in Virginia and DC [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lloyd O'Hara
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Roof Debris & Clear runway
Having had that situation at a tournament yeasterday, I can clarify that for you. Your first touch penalty is costly, not only do you get the 10 point penalty, you also do not get the 30 points for the clear runway. Basically, the first touch penalty will cost the team 40 points.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Dannhardt
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:00 AM
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Roof Debris & Clear runway
Good morning.
I am unclear if touch penalty roof debris placed onto the runway counts against a clear runway score. (I see updates clarifying that roof debris in the Lt Blue zone specifically does not count against). Can anyone clarify for me?
Thanks,
Coach Mike
KA4CDN
S.L.Compulsion
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