Hmmm... could it be the case that the kids say to the refs- "please remove
the ones not in base?" before touching the robot?
Brandy

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Stephen Scherr <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> The referees should follow the guidance in Update 25.
>
> 25 - BACTERIA CLUSTER ENTERING BASE
> If a cluster of several objects is entering Base but not all
> individuals are in yet, and you touch the robot, Rule 18 Bullet #3,
> and Rule 21 together mean the ref should take away the ones that
> hadn't made it to Base yet (correct, but REALLY?)  In practice though,
> it's tough to win an argument about which ones were in or out, so
> referees usually either treat the cluster as a single object, (nice,
> but incorrect), or they stretch the Benefit-Of-The-Doubt rule too much
> (nice, but sloppy, and inconsistent).   This needs to be repaired in
> the Rules, but here's your exception for now:  When the robot is
> moving a continuous cluster of bacteria into Base, they are to be
> treated as one object.  As soon as the first is in, they're all in.
> Two separate clusters are assessed separately, and fish, rats, pizza,
> and ice cream will still also be assessed individually.
>
> I haven't seen your container, but I would say that it is likely that
> it is all in in your scenario.
>
> Steve
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:26 AM, B Bergenstock <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > OK- a scenario from my team.  Occasionally the robot does not make a turn
> > back as far as it is programed to go, but it usually hits the bacteria
> tray
> > on its way back to base (the one closest to the base near the yellow
> ball),
> > then almost always spins itself into the base.  The container the kids
> used
> > to catch the bacteria is half in and half out of base, which means not
> all
> > the bacteria are in base when they need to retrieve it.
> >   Would all those bacterium get taken out, or some? Just wondering so I
> can
> > tell the kids what to expect (most of the time) from the judges when that
> > happens.
> > Brandy
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:43 AM, VA/DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]
> >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Sonya, that is correct.  If the item hasn't crossed into Base, and it
> >> came from out in the field (the robot didn't bring it out of Base when
> >> it left), then the item would be taken out of play by the referee when
> >> the robot was touched.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Sonya Shaver <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >> > Thanks, Steve!  So, if the robot has an attachment on it that has
> >> > grabbed
> >> > something, and then comes back to base, and the robot is all the way
> >> > back in
> >> > base, but has an attachment still dangling out of base that has the
> item
> >> > attached to it, then they could lose the item if the touch the robot?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:45 PM, VA/DC Referee Advisor <
> [log in to unmask]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Rule 18 tells what happens when you touch the robot or its cargo.  It
> >> >> includes a Warning: "Avoid touching a robot entering Base until its
> >> >> cargo has also reached Base!"
> >> >>
> >> >> The bottom line is that the team will usually not want to touch the
> >> >> robot or its cargo until the robot itself and each of its cargo items
> >> >> have crossed into Base.
> >> >>
> >> >> The position of each item is determined independently (Rule 21) and
> >> >> cargo that has not crossed into Base may be lost (Rule 18).
> >> >>
> >> >> There are also several Robot Game Updates that give more details on
> >> >> specific cases:
> >> >> Update 24, Multi-part models, tells us that the yellow farm truck and
> >> >> its contents are treated as a single object--if one is in Base, then
> >> >> all are in Base.  Similarly the white refrigerated trailer and its
> >> >> contents are treated as a single object for entering Base.
> >> >> Update 25, Bacteria Cluster Entering Base, tells us that distinct
> >> >> continuous clusters of bacteria will be treated as one object for
> >> >> purposes of entering Base.  It also reminds us that this doesn't
> apply
> >> >> to other mission models.
> >> >>
> >> >> Update 30, from this week, doesn't talk about Base, but it does give
> >> >> some examples about when a mission model is cargo.
> >> >>
> >> >> Steve Scherr
> >> >> VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Sonya Shaver <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > Hello,
> >> >> > Can I ask a question to clarify when you can touch the robot when
> it
> >> >> > returns
> >> >> > to base in between programs?
> >> >> > In past years, the team could grab the robot as soon as a portion
> of
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > robot had clearly entered base.  But I think I read something in a
> >> >> > question
> >> >> > on this list about cargo needing to be in base too.  So, can you
> >> >> > clarify
> >> >> > about that?  For example, if the robot has an attachment that has
> >> >> > grabbed
> >> >> > some item off the table to bring it back to base, then when the
> robot
> >> >> > comes
> >> >> > back to base, once a part of the robot has clearly entered base,
> can
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > team member still grab the robot?  Even if the cargo is still out
> of
> >> >> > base,
> >> >> > but is attached to the attachment on the robot?  Am I being clear?
> >> >> > Thanks,
> >> >> > Sonya in Harrisonburg
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