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October 2015

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Subject:
From:
VA-DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
VA-DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 14 Oct 2015 19:21:36 -0400
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Robot Bill is exactly correct,

  D03 -- Equipment objects are objects that the *team* brings to the match.
  D08 -- Models are objects on the field when the team arrives (the field
set-up kit models)

  Junk Penalties (D09) can only apply to objects/attachments/items that the
team brings to the match.  There is no junk penalty for any piece of [team]
equipment that is completely in Safety, or that is stored as allowed by R11.

  Plain word description--if the team brings an object (not the robot) and
leaves it outside Safety at the end of the match, then it will be
considered Junk.

Steve Scherr
Virginia-DC FLL Referee Advisor

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Robot Bill <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I'll let the VA-DC FLL referees give an official decision on this, but it
> is pretty clear to me with the existing rules what would be junk and what
> would not be junk. The key to the interpretation are the words "you bring"
> in the definition of equipment in rule D03. Since the junk penalty is only
> for "equipment" and equipment is what "you bring" and you are not allowed
> to bring models to the field. If you follow all of the logic, then the
> models (airplane toys, methane, etc.) are NOT subject to a junk penalty
> since they are not "equipment". Only equipment, *that which you brought
> to the match*, is subject to the junk penalty.
>
>
> *D09 – Penalties *– A “Penalty” is a deduction from your final score due
> to a specific action that is allowed but discouraged.
>
> Penalty values are found in the Missions. There are two types of Penalty:
>
> ● Interruption Penalty – Caused by you Interrupting the Robot while it’s
> not completely in Safety.
>
> ● Junk Penalty – Caused…
>
> *     • *immediately – by each piece of *equipment* the Robot strands
> partly in Safety.
>
> *     • *at the end of the Match – by each piece of *equipment* still
> stranded completely outside Safety.
>
> *D03 – Equipment* – “Equipment” is everything *you bring to a Match* for
> Mission-related activity
>
> *D08 - Model *– A “Model” (often called a “Mission Model”) is any LEGO
> structure already at the Field when you arrive to compete. *You don’t
> bring Models to the competition Field* – they’re already there when you
> arrive.
>
> Hopefully I have clarified this a bit for now.
>
> *RECOMMENDATION:* Your team members, *not* the coach, should
> understand the entire challenge and all related updates. They should be
> able to provide a logical explanation to any referee who might make a
> mistake with respect to applying junk penalties. See rule number R18.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.firstlegoleague.org_sites_default_files_Challenge_TRASH-2DTREK_TRASH-2DTREK-2DChallenge.pdf&d=BQIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=k6Oa5GxfBPFMgGjb2r5QIoEOeBZs9xbNIpA0kLw_kFQ&m=twYiPSWE6sjIbWMKS9MFV_J1PsbYOEw91AaVSMfKCJA&s=1YG6q4shhwLVEvuCI84WIFwSWht4ba5esXF9a8Q_qsQ&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.firstlegoleague.org_sites_default_files_Challenge_TRASH-2DTREK_TRASH-2DTREK-2DChallenge.pdf&d=BQMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=dGzZ5UFozMDjmk9i_1eDBgLaDXiws364TCKkwctEDgY&s=COaOP9R_SJuU9m16pOznd8Lg2t6wp3XVkmVCm22V9SE&e=>
>
> *R18 – Scoring *
>
> ● Scoresheet – The Ref recalls action and inspects the Field with you,
> Mission by Mission...
>
> *• *If you agree with the Ref on all facts, you sign the sheet, and the
> score is final.
>
> *• *If you don’t agree, tell the Ref nicely. Refs can be wrong, and when
> they are, they want to know. If there is any lingering disagreement, the
> Head Ref makes the final decision.
>
>
> Best of Luck! Have Fun!
> Bill
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Joseph Trombo <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Jennifer and all,
>>
>> The BrickBeasts have discussed this quite a bit, and have come to the
>> same conclusions that you have.
>> But, I think an official interpretation would be lovely.
>> (Please?)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Amy Trombo
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Jennifer Koehler <[log in to unmask]>
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 14, 2015 11:01 AM
>> *Subject:* [VADCFLL-L] Junk and Penalties
>>
>> What is considered Junk? i.e. If we attempt to collect a trash bag and
>> lose it, if we demo the building and don't collect the bricks, if we
>> attempt any task really like airplane toys, methane, etc and we drop it and
>> don't go back for it, is that considered junk?  In reading the definitions,
>> it sounds like "equipment" is any attachments we have that we leave on the
>> board. So we wouldn't get points for getting things into safety, but we
>> wouldn't lose any either? correct?
>>
>> It's defined below:
>> D09 -
>> Junk Penalty – Caused…
>> • immediately – by each piece of equipment the Robot strands partly in
>> Safety.
>> • at the end of the Match – by each piece of equipment still stranded
>> completely outside Safety.
>>
>> whereas:
>> D03 – Equipment – “Equipment” is everything you bring to a Match for
>> Mission-related activity
>>
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