A Black Bar that ends up in Safety/Base may still be counted as negative
points during scoring.  It will be counted for negative points unless it
meets one of the requirements of M04 Sorting that say that it will be
scored as positive points.

Steve Scherr
Virginia-DC FLL Referee Advisor

P.S.  Two of the four ways to have Black Bars scored for positive points
won't be happening if they are in Safety....



On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks <[log in to unmask]
> wrote:

> I don't recall the wording just now..
>
> Are black pieces (non-penalty pieces) still counted (against you) if
> they're in safety/base? Or is getting them to the landfill the only way to
> keep them from negatively impacting your score?
>
>
> Tweeks
> ------------------------------
> *From:* First Lego League in Virginia and DC <[log in to unmask]>
> on behalf of VA-DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2015 1:38 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: [VADCFLL-L] Junk and Penalties
>
> As a referee, I have to be very precise in the words that I use.  There
> can be as many as 12 Black Bars that will score negative points.  You might
> consider them all penalties, but only 4 of them are officially Penalty
> objects.  What is the difference?  The Penalty objects have to stay on the
> mat, but the robot can try to do things with the other Black Bars to make
> them worth positive points.
>
> Steve Scherr
> Virginia-DC FLL Referee Advisor
>
> On Thursday, October 15, a team wrote:
>
>> What about the black bars which are part of mission models, like
>> demolition and toybox. If team fails to put them in sorter or trashbin on
>> east side of mat, will there be seprate penalty? Or at any given time team
>> can have maximum 4 penalty.
>> Please clarify.
>> Thanks
>> On Oct 14, 2015 9:30 PM, "VA-DC Referee Advisor" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, that's right.  See the "Penalties" description in the Missions
>>>
>>>    1.
>>>
>>>    Penalties – For each Penalty as described in Rule D09, the Ref will
>>>    place one Black Bar on the Mat in a convenient out-of- the-way place, not
>>>    to exceed four Bars. The Ref may shift them out of the Robot’s way as
>>>    needed, but they must always stay in a negative scoring position.
>>>
>>> The referee will assess a maximum of four Interruption and Junk
>>> Penalties on the Robot and Equipment in a match. After the maximum of four
>>> Black Bars have been placed on the mat because of a Penalty, the team can
>>> rescue the Robot by an Interruption without any additional scoring
>>> penalty.  Models are still susceptible to being taken out of play because
>>> of an Interruption, or because of Stranding.
>>>
>>>   The scoring value of each Black Bar placed as a penalty is Minus 8 per
>>> Bar, as described in M04, Sorting.  The bars are no longer in their
>>> original Setup position (which was off the mat with the Referee) and may
>>> not be moved into a Green Bin or the Landfill.
>>>
>>> Steve Scherr
>>> Virginia-DC FLL Referee Advisor.
>>>
>> ------------------------------
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