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First Lego League in Virginia and DC

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From:
Thomas West <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Thomas West <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:58:16 -0400
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What is the cost of the penalty?  Is this when the referee would place one
of the four black bars in their possession somewhere on the playing field?
If so, what happens if a team incurs more than four penalties?
On Oct 14, 2015 7:21 PM, "VA-DC Referee Advisor" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Robot Bill is exactly correct,
>
>   D03 -- Equipment objects are objects that the *team* brings to the match.
>   D08 -- Models are objects on the field when the team arrives (the field
> set-up kit models)
>
>   Junk Penalties (D09) can only apply to objects/attachments/items that
> the team brings to the match.  There is no junk penalty for any piece of
> [team] equipment that is completely in Safety, or that is stored as allowed
> by R11.
>
>   Plain word description--if the team brings an object (not the robot) and
> leaves it outside Safety at the end of the match, then it will be
> considered Junk.
>
> Steve Scherr
> Virginia-DC FLL Referee Advisor
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Robot Bill <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> I'll let the VA-DC FLL referees give an official decision on this, but it
>> is pretty clear to me with the existing rules what would be junk and what
>> would not be junk. The key to the interpretation are the words "you bring"
>> in the definition of equipment in rule D03. Since the junk penalty is only
>> for "equipment" and equipment is what "you bring" and you are not allowed
>> to bring models to the field. If you follow all of the logic, then the
>> models (airplane toys, methane, etc.) are NOT subject to a junk penalty
>> since they are not "equipment". Only equipment, *that which you brought
>> to the match*, is subject to the junk penalty.
>>
>>
>> *D09 – Penalties *– A “Penalty” is a deduction from your final score due
>> to a specific action that is allowed but discouraged.
>>
>> Penalty values are found in the Missions. There are two types of Penalty:
>>
>> ● Interruption Penalty – Caused by you Interrupting the Robot while it’s
>> not completely in Safety.
>>
>> ● Junk Penalty – Caused…
>>
>> *     • *immediately – by each piece of *equipment* the Robot strands
>> partly in Safety.
>>
>> *     • *at the end of the Match – by each piece of *equipment* still
>> stranded completely outside Safety.
>>
>> *D03 – Equipment* – “Equipment” is everything *you bring to a Match* for
>> Mission-related activity
>>
>> *D08 - Model *– A “Model” (often called a “Mission Model”) is any LEGO
>> structure already at the Field when you arrive to compete. *You don’t
>> bring Models to the competition Field* – they’re already there when you
>> arrive.
>>
>> Hopefully I have clarified this a bit for now.
>>
>> *RECOMMENDATION:* Your team members, *not* the coach, should
>> understand the entire challenge and all related updates. They should be
>> able to provide a logical explanation to any referee who might make a
>> mistake with respect to applying junk penalties. See rule number R18.
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.firstlegoleague.org_sites_default_files_Challenge_TRASH-2DTREK_TRASH-2DTREK-2DChallenge.pdf&d=BQIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=G9U-_McborSE8zmL4l_UXxZ_z52DuFx5x-u3KAS4_E8&s=D1DSKwr9zVaTs7BdPnwPPawjA0YUlGTr7dia_EaHfvI&e= 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.firstlegoleague.org_sites_default_files_Challenge_TRASH-2DTREK_TRASH-2DTREK-2DChallenge.pdf&d=BQMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=dGzZ5UFozMDjmk9i_1eDBgLaDXiws364TCKkwctEDgY&s=COaOP9R_SJuU9m16pOznd8Lg2t6wp3XVkmVCm22V9SE&e=>
>>
>> *R18 – Scoring *
>>
>> ● Scoresheet – The Ref recalls action and inspects the Field with you,
>> Mission by Mission...
>>
>> *• *If you agree with the Ref on all facts, you sign the sheet, and the
>> score is final.
>>
>> *• *If you don’t agree, tell the Ref nicely. Refs can be wrong, and when
>> they are, they want to know. If there is any lingering disagreement, the
>> Head Ref makes the final decision.
>>
>>
>> Best of Luck! Have Fun!
>> Bill
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Joseph Trombo <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Jennifer and all,
>>>
>>> The BrickBeasts have discussed this quite a bit, and have come to the
>>> same conclusions that you have.
>>> But, I think an official interpretation would be lovely.
>>> (Please?)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Amy Trombo
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Jennifer Koehler <[log in to unmask]>
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 14, 2015 11:01 AM
>>> *Subject:* [VADCFLL-L] Junk and Penalties
>>>
>>> What is considered Junk? i.e. If we attempt to collect a trash bag and
>>> lose it, if we demo the building and don't collect the bricks, if we
>>> attempt any task really like airplane toys, methane, etc and we drop it and
>>> don't go back for it, is that considered junk?  In reading the definitions,
>>> it sounds like "equipment" is any attachments we have that we leave on the
>>> board. So we wouldn't get points for getting things into safety, but we
>>> wouldn't lose any either? correct?
>>>
>>> It's defined below:
>>> D09 -
>>> Junk Penalty – Caused…
>>> • immediately – by each piece of equipment the Robot strands partly in
>>> Safety.
>>> • at the end of the Match – by each piece of equipment still stranded
>>> completely outside Safety.
>>>
>>> whereas:
>>> D03 – Equipment – “Equipment” is everything you bring to a Match for
>>> Mission-related activity
>>>
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>>
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