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August 2012

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From:
Darlene Pantaleo <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Darlene Pantaleo <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 24 Aug 2012 13:30:23 -0400
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Sorry, what I am trying to say is that the ideas and presentation thereof should not be used by both teams. You asked if the teams could use the same "challenge solution"--I said that if you mean the research, then the answer is "no".

I am not saying that they cannot use the same solution, but if they are interested in getting an award, each team should have its own solution. Think of it from another perspective: If the judges find the said solution to be the most innovative, but it is presented by 2 different teams, which one should they give the award to? And how would Team A feel if they came up with the solution and Team B, who also used it, got the award?

As to the robot, sharing ideas and using similar strategies for the various challenges will always happen, but it is best not to have 2 identical robots when being judged for design.

On Aug 24, 2012, at 12:42 PM, John Barrett wrote:

> In regards to research and the associated presentation, I ask "Why not?"  Again, research and ideas should be freely shared.  It's what you do with them that makes the difference.  Unless two teams have identified the exact same problem and are working on the exact same solution, then what is the harm in "cross-pollination" as Phil calls it?  I know that my teams over the years have struggled with project and could benefit from  seeing how another team has gone about their research, understanding the motivation behind their problem selection, the work they put into their solution, and (my teams could have really benefited from) seeing how they shared their research in the judging room.
> 
> John
> 
> -- 
> 
> John J. Barrett
> Industrial Medium Software, Inc.
> 1616 Anderson Road
> McLean, VA 22102
> 
> (c) 703-231-5094
> (p) 703-286-0818
> (f) 703-286-0888
> 
> http://www.industrialmedium.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 24, 2012, at 12:33 PM, Darlene Pantaleo wrote:
> 
>> Are you talking about the robot or the research, Dave? If the robot, just be sure that they are not making copycat robots if they care about the design award. If you are talking about the research, then the answer if definitely not.
>> 
>> Keep in mind that this program is about sparking creativity and innovation, and that's what judges are looking for :~)
>> 
>> On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:42 AM, John Barrett wrote:
>> 
>>> Dave,
>>> I don't run multiple teams, but I think the scenario you describe is acceptable.  Why?  Well, the work needs to be the kids own work, that is true.  But a common and expected practice at tournaments is to see the work other teams have done.  Kids remember interesting solutions from one year to the next and will employ some of these concepts in their new designs.  Likewise, there has been talk about having teams scrimmage before any tournaments.  I would expect the same sort of outcome.  In my experience, unless your teams are building the exact same robot, they won't be able to "steal" another team's design.  Sharing (intentional or not) may spark some creative juices and help them see a solution for their own robot that they otherwise may have never thought about.  And isn't that really what this is all about?
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> John J. Barrett
>>> Industrial Medium Software, Inc.
>>> 1616 Anderson Road
>>> McLean, VA 22102
>>> 
>>> (c) 703-231-5094
>>> (p) 703-286-0818
>>> (f) 703-286-0888
>>> 
>>> http://www.industrialmedium.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:58 AM, David Lawrence wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>>   Thanks again to everyone who responded to my earlier post about multiple teams. You've given us the confidence to go ahead and run two teams this year. I do have a question regarding the rules that I'm hoping someone can clarify:
>>>> 
>>>> One of my other coaches and I have had children involved in Odyssey of the Mind where they drill into you the very strict rule about no "Outside Assistance". Basically, everything done in preparation for the competition and at the competition must originate from the team members only and all must be there. No collaboration with either students or parents outside of the team is allowed concerning the project. For FLL, this seems to be not quite so strict.
>>>> 
>>>> My question is: If I have two teams practicing in the same room and a pair of kids, one from each team, work together on a challenge solution, can both teams use that solution in the competition? What if one team just sees another team's solution and tries to implement it themselves?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>> -Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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> 


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