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August 2014

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From:
VA-DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
VA-DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 29 Aug 2014 08:49:55 -0400
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To tell the truth, I wasn't planning to watch the video until this weekend.
Why?  Because it's only some highlights of the missions, and doesn't have
the details of the game that teams will need to know.  Robot Bill noted the
reference to that in the rules.

The FLL Robot Game is like other games--there are things that your team is
allowed to do, that may have consequences that your team doesn't like.  For
example, when playing soccer (in real life!), a team *can* kick the ball
out of bounds, but they may not *want* to kick the ball out of bounds,
because then the other team gets to control the ball.

In this year's Robot Game, your robot *can* bring the box to Base.  That is
allowed; there is no rule against it.  Your team probably doesn't *want* to
bring the box to Base, because then they won't get any points for the
Thinking Outside the Box mission.

So let's take a look at the details of the team's question.
- In the Missions document, the mission description talks about two
objects-- the "box model" and the "idea model".

- The Field Setup document talks about the "box" and the "slab".  This
could be confusing, but we use the picture in the mission description to
recognize that the "idea model" is the "slab" that has the "light bulb"
image on it.

- The mission text describes the "box model" and the "idea model" as two
separate, independent objects, even though the Field Setup has one of them
start inside the other.

- The mission text has the constraint that the "box model" must never be in
Base, in order to get points for the mission.

Does this constraint also mean that the "ideal model" has to stay out of
Base to earn points for the mission?
  -  Rule 2:  There are no hidden requirements or restrictions. If you’ve
read everything, then you know everything.
  -  Rule 2:  Robot game text means exactly and only what it says, so take
it literally whenever possible.
  -  So, since the mission only says "box model", then it only means "box
model" and the constraint doesn't apply to the "idea model".

  The team asked if they could bring the "idea model" to Base.  Yes, that
is allowed by the Rules.  Are there any consequences that they don't like?
Not for the Thinking Outside the Box mission.  If the "idea model" is in
Base during the match, and the "box model" is never in Base during the
match, then the team can earn the points for that mission.


   Everyone will see in our future discussions that we'll look at what
happens to individual objects separately (especially see Rule 27, "In"),
and that is the distinction that we are making here.

Steve Scherr
VA-DC FLL Referee Advisor


On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 6:52 AM, Parvathy Krishnan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I thought the video said you cannot bring the box to the base. Am I
> mistaken?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 29, 2014, at 12:49 AM, VA-DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> This is a great question to kick of the World Class season!  It gives a
> chance to demonstrate how to use the Robot Game materials.
>
> The first thing to know is that the rules and the game change from year to
> year.  If something was true in a past season, that should only give your
> team a hint to look for it in this year's game....!
>
> In the World Class Rules, Information category, Rule 5,
> Precedence/Authority tells us that:
>
> You get information about the robot game from more than one place. Once in
> a while,there is conflict...
> So here is the order of precedence for the sources:
> 1 = CURRENT Robot Game Updates, 2 = Missions and Field Setup, 3 = Rules
> ...
> When there is conflict between pictures/videos and text, the text takes
> precedence!
>
>
> So, I will always try to cite the text from the Updates, Missions, Field
> Setup, and Rules when I discuss a question about the Robot Game.
>
> In the Philosophy category, Rule 2, Interpretation really gets to the
> heart of the question:
> Robot game text means exactly and only what it says, so take it literally
> whenever possible.
> - If a detail isn’t mentioned, then it doesn’t matter.
> - There are no hidden requirements or restrictions. If you’ve read
> everything, then you know everything.
> ...and....
> --You’re encouraged to think this way - Please learn the requirements and
> constraints very well, and then realize the many FREEDOMS that are left.
>
>
> Do make sure that your team reads the examples in Rule 2 and discusses
> them.  It's what makes the Robot Game so much fun--understanding an obeying
> the constraints and figuring out something crazy that does a great job
> anyway!
>
> So, yes, if there is nothing special written about the idea model, then
> the team may do anything with it within the rules.  The required method for
> the Thinking Outside the Box mission is that "The box model was never in
> Base."  As the team recognized, this constraint does not say anything about
> the idea model.  So, if there's nothing else in the game that limits where
> or how the idea model may be moved, then the robot may move that model
> anywhere, in any allowable way.
>
> Steve Scherr
> VA-DC FLL Referee Advisor
>
> P.S. for everyone--See the Critical Warning at the end of the Rules.
> Every team wants to have at least one member who is an expert on the game
> documents, and the best teams challenge each other to think of ideas and
> decide whether they are allowable, and, if not, how to tweak them so that
> they are.  (But only to use them if they are helpful to the team, of
> course!)
>
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 10:40 PM, Rick Fontanilla <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Our team just had a meeting to discuss the missions.  One of the big
> > discussions was the Outside the Box mission.  Challenge says the idea
> > model is no longer touching the box model.  The box model was never in
> > Base.  One of the kids asked if we could bring the idea model to base.  I
> > said, in the past seasons, if it is not in the rules specifically, then
> you can
> > do it.
> > Does that sound right?
> >
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