FWIW,Early in the season, when the team was reviewing the missions and asking "How many points do we get for...", I used the opportunity to discuss net points. So that, in the demolition mission, they could get 85 points, but when they displaced 4 black bars (for 32 points) their net was 53 points. There is also a net situation for the large toy box. So, they wrote the net points instead of the mission points, and started with a positive 96 points for the black bars. 

We are a 4th year team, and I think this year's field is really cool. There are enough but not too many missions. There is a loud mission (demolition), and there is a lot of potential strategy. We haven't had our tournament yet, but I think it will be particularly fun this year because of the project topic and the game field. The field is tricky, though. So, there was lots of discussion this year on field strategy. I don't think they had a field strategy our rookie year, maybe it was, "do the one mission you programmed that works most of the time."

Looking back, it's really interesting how the team has changed over the years, how their work and goals have evolved.Rookie years are really tough! I so wanted to quit, but the kids talked me in to a second year and then more. But, please stick with it, it is really, really worth it for you and your team.
I know the Core Value about discovery being more important than winning. But, for our FLL team, the team and coaches have learned so many things we did not expect to learn, it's been an amazing journey.
Amy Tromboco-coach BrickBeasts

      From: Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks <[log in to unmask]>
 To: [log in to unmask] 
 Sent: Monday, November 9, 2015 5:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament scores
   
#yiv7018052489 #yiv7018052489 -- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv7018052489 Sure Frank!I just didn't want to flood the list with a bunch of (often embarrassing) back and forth.  I'm and old USENET junkie, so I always believe in sharing findings out to lists once answers are found.

So part of our (rookie) team's problem was definitely not understanding the truck scoring mission ("supporting the full weight (at the end)" was not during the movement of the truck, but only the end state.. so EITHER 50 or 60.. not both (typically.. unless someone picks up and moves the whole truck ;) ).  
But when discussing the ev3lessons tool with Sanjay, their default starting 96 points was confusing when comparing with other grading tools.. but looks correct after discussing with him.

I'm continuing to look at how the ref recorded our ending state... but right now it looks like we were shorted several of our black bars (all blk bars were left in original location or in the flower pot).  I'll look at the grading sheet we were given back (tonight) and report back here.  Since we were exactly 32 points lower than expected.. I suspect we were shorted 4 black bars of credit. I'll report back once I know for sure. (was there anything else that can account for exactly 32points?)


Current Take Aways:
1) Obtain Intimate Working Knowledge of the End State Grading:REALLY make sure the rules/scoring is understood by everyone on your team. Especially rookie teams (like us) but even more-so the kids.. since THEY are the ones who need to ask possibly challenge the ref's explanation of the recorded end of game state. 

2) Use the Sample Scoring Sheets:Actually USE the sample scoring sheets in your own test runs with the kids so that they are used to seeing and using them so that they can recognize ref grading issues (or misunderstadngins) before signing off on the ref's calls.  Our kids had seen the rubric sheets, but we never used a robot-game grading sheet with them.. so that's our (coaches) fault.
3) Ref State Review - Go slow and Ask Ask Ask:Encourage the kids to ask refs when something looks off or is simply not understood.
Tell them to "Don't rush or feel pressured".

All things being equal (correct me if I'm wrong), but perceived scoring discrepancies can only lie in one of two places right?
i) bad callor
ii) misunderstanding
either way.. the kids should be able to recognize an issue and either catch the bad call OR learn the correct state grading/rule.
Heh.. I know that with me at least, it's usually that latter (ii) 
I'll let you all knwo what I find.

Tweeks


From: Frank Levine <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2015 4:54 PM
To: Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks
Cc: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament scores Given the fact that we are in tournament season and many teams are meeting this week and using the EV3Lessons scoring app, I would appreciate it if the discussion regarding errors (or not errors) remained out in the open.  I checked it against our interpretations of the rules and found no problems.  As long as the whole thing is handled with Gracious Professionalism, it is better to have more eyes on potential problems.
The guys at EV3Lessons did a great job on this, please don't restrict the flow of information about such a public resource.
Frank LevineThe Robotic Rockets
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hehe.. I was afraid of this..
Taking discussion off list. :)  Ping Sanjay or I if interested in the discussion.. :)

Tweeks
p.s. we really appreciate the awesome community.. both here, and by folks like the EV3 Lessons folks.. which we (especially us ignorant rookie teams) rely on so heavily :)

________________________________________
From: First Lego League in Virginia and DC <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of EV3 Lessons <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2015 3:39 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament scores

@Tweeks:  Could you let us know what "grading errors" were in the scoring tool we made that you referred to in your post?   It has been tested by many refs. It was used at a Qualifying Tournament last weekend and the refs and/or teams using it have not mentioned any error.

If there are errors, we would love the opportunity to correct calculation issues or clarify wording if it was just an interpretation issue by teams.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ev3lessons.com_resources_scorer_score.html-23en-2Dus&d=BQIFAw&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=ailQO14rcyaiGrNhowCrnShyHOvyrTJuIOCCoO9RCys&s=1QpIBA53ByA4MxnMR7aFrVIIk6919cl2VImkEOhxmog&e=

Thank you,
Sanjay and Arvind
EV3Lessons

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