VADCFLL-L Archives

December 2008

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Subject:
From:
Ralph Grove <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Ralph Grove <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:29:59 -0500
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Desh,

VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L initially included all of the coaches invited to
the championship tournament and the lead tournament volunteers. I
suspect that some of the coaches have unsubscribed now that the
tournament is over. Almost everyone on that list should be on this list,
too.

The Alice programming website is http://www.alice.org/. You can download
it from there and find tutorials to help you (or the kids) get started
using it. The project home is at Carnegie Mellon University, though many
others contribute as well. Alice was designed to provide an intuitive
and fun introduction to programming (as opposed to the traditional
mathematical approach) that would appeal to both girls and boys. It
would be a great way for FLL kids to learn more about computing.

Thanks for your interest in my book. It's a textbook on Web development,
and should hit the shelves next May. I'll be available to autograph
copies at the tournament next fall :).

Cheers,
Ralph

Gajanan Deshmukh wrote:
> Ralph,
>
> Are this messages (VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L) been read by everyone or
> just State Finalsists. We all thank you for behind the scene support
> and keeping discussions thorough and professional. Thank you for
> posting State Championship results and videos.
>
> Student Activities at State Finals:
>
> Many many thanks to you and JMU students for providing FLL team
> members to participate in various theme based activities. I gather
> Video game Programming (Alice) was very popular. Do you have links
> from where the software can be downloaded.
>
> Important:
> Please do share with us the Text Book you wrote and when it will be
> published. Congratulations once again and best luck.
>
> Desh Deshmukh
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* David Levy <[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Sent:* Friday, December 12, 2008 10:01:44 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [VADCFLL-L] [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback
> sheets
>
> "Find a mid-point between parents and teachers who help build/program
> and for those who are only children made. "
>
> I've heard this before. Does anyone have the impression that adults are
> building and programming mission solutions for the kids? If so then
> please have those individuals review the "My Promise as Coach" on page
> iii of the FLL Coaches Handbook. (see below) Promise 2. clearly
> states "The children on my team do all of the programming, research,
> problem solving, and building. ..."
> MY PROMISE as coach:
>
> 1) The children come first. FLL is about the children having fun and
> getting excited about science and technology. Everything my team does
> starts and ends with this principle.
>
> 2) The children do the work. This is their opportunity to learn and
> grow. The children on my team do all of the programming, research,
> problem solving, and building. Adults can help them find the answers,
> but cannot give them answers or make decisions.
>
> dl
>
>
>
> Salas, Alex wrote:
> > I second this thread. I think it is healthy to speak out and
> exchange ideas. Some of the things said yesterday and today, have only
> been comments at pits. It's time we exteriorize them, we could be wrong.
> > I do agree, that we should focus more in science, less in costumes
> and elaborated presentations.
> > Find a mid-point between parents and teachers who help build/program
> and for those who are only children made. Schools or groups who meet
> everyday and put on hold everything else to concentrate on the
> competition, while others have only a couple after school meetings. Or
> just teach our children, that real life is like that and everybody's
> reality is different, but compete in the same ground.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: First Lego League Discussion
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Nicholas Duan
> > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:52 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback
> sheets
> >
> > I can't agree more, considering the fact that about half of the
> awards/trophies were given to adults, not kids. If I was a young
> child, waiting in the hallway and going though the closing ceremony
> after a long day would be very tiring, and there isn't much
> value-added in the spirit of FLL and learning. If I was a kid, I'd
> like to have fun and more excitement at the closing ceremony:
> >
> > 1. Skip the team intro entirely (we could save at least an hour).
> Let the kids enter the gym freely, play some dance music (just like
> the closing ceremony at the Beijing Olympics). It's party time!
> >
> > 2. Give awards only to kids, not adults. I'm not saying that we
> shouldn't recognize the contribution of our volunteers, but this may
> not be the right time. We may find another way to give out the
> volunteer awards, for instance, having a party for
> adults/volunteers/parents/coaches the night before. Or hosting a
> parent/coach conference for exchanging ideas in
> coaching/judging/parenting, while the kids were doing their activities.
> >
> > 3. After announcing the winners, have each one do a live
> presentation to the whole audience, and have the judges providing
> comments on the uniqueness of each winner. This will give our kids
> another opportunities to learn, and also eliminate any doubts about
> fairness of the judging process.
> >
> > FLL is all about kids getting interested and learning science and
> technology. If we could focus on this goal, coaching/judging/running
> the championship will become much simpler and easier...
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rakesh Bahadur <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:19 pm
> > Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] FW: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging
> feedback sheets
> >
> >
> >> Let me share my observations as a rookie coach.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> FLL need to de-emphasise award giving and put more emphasis on
> >> learning. As long as awards are given at the end of the
> >> tournament, winning will be the major driver of participation. In
> >> FLL spirit (all about having fun and not about winning), just give
> >> only two awards, one for div 1 champi on and othe r for div 2
> >> champion.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Robotics and FLL is all about science and engineering. For
> >> anything to be scientific, it must be quantifiable and verifiable.
> >> Judgement at regional and state FLL tournament (team work,
> >> project, design) does not meet that criteria. A quantitative
> >> criteria will be always preferred over a qualitative one.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> FLL should decide
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. Whether it wants to stay in the realm of sound science or soft
> >> science.
> >>
> >> 2. What it wants to stand for? L earning by the teams or
> >> competing parents/coaches.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rakesh
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Rusty West" <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:11:48 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
> >> Eastern
> >> Subject: [VADCFLL-L] FW: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback
> >> sheets
> >>
> >> I want to take a second to present MY OPINION and I don't mean to
> >> preach.
> >> This is just for others to consider when planning for next year.
> >>
> >> I do agree with you and after 8 years as an FLL Division 2 coach I
> >> am sure
> >> your philosophy is the right way to go. I now have former team
> >> members in
> >> college, studying engineering, who come back and tell me how FLL
> >> helped
> >> them. I can do the programming and build but I NEVER NEVER NEVER
> >> touch the
> >> robot or the keyboard for programming. I don't even carry it
> >> around at the
> >> competitions. At the state competition I saw coaches helping to
> >> build on
> >> the robot and typing the programming without any kids standing
> >> around.
> >> Those team members were missing out on a learning moment because
> >> their coach
> >> was doing the work. In the technical room my kids told the judges
> >> that I
> >> had told them I was a "FACILITATOR" in practice and they had never
> >> seen me
> >> put two Legos together. I only answer a question with another
> >> question that
> >> will help guide them to find the answer. I know the coaches that
> >> help the
> >> kids with building and programming have the best of intentions but
> >> they just
> >> don't understand that mistakes and frustration are part of the
> >> learning
> >> process. My kids can recite that " Thomas Edison had 600 failures
> >> before he
> >> got the light bulb to work" because I preach that to them when
> >> they get
> >> frustrated.
> >>
> >> My other concern is that I see too much Odessy of the Mind ( OM
> >> )creeping
> >> into FLL. Teams spend too much time on their costumes, give
> >> aways, and
> >> other props instead of focusing on the engineering and actual
> >> science. This
> >> is about robotics and engineering. OM is a fine competition and
> >> has it's
> >> place. FLL should be about engineering and science, not cute
> >> costumes
> >> ( beyond t shirts ) and other fluff. I don't know of any team
> >> that couldn't
> >> use more practice time and taking time away to do fluff means less
> >> engineering practice time. If teams have so much extra time they
> >> should go
> >> on to program in RobotC. I haven't gotten to that point yet with
> >> my kids
> >> but wish I could.
> >>
> >> I don't mean to rant, just throwing my opinion out there for
> >> consideration.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: vadcfll championship tournament
> >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of
> >> Donna
> >> Cornett
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:47 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >> Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback sheets
> >>
> >> I only have one question - - Are the KIDS reading these emails??
> >> I'm
> >> retiring this year so I guess I can speak my mind without fear of
> >> retribution :-) but everyone please remember that it is the team
> >> members who
> >> need to know how to do these things - - not us! I couldn't run my
> >> team's
> >> missions if my life depended on it. That is their job. Mine is to
> >> guide and
> >> ask questions that they may not have thought of. I realize that
> >> I'm sort of
> >> obsessed on this topic, but please, everyone, keep this in mind as
> >> you are
> >> letting each other know how to do things that the kids need to
> >> figure out.
> >>
> >> Sorry for the diatribe!
> >>
> >>
> >> Donna Cornett
> >> Gifted Specialist
> >> Eagle Ridge Middle School
> >> 42901 Waxpool Road
> >> Ashburn, VA 20148
> >> 571-252-2140
> >>
> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
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> >> select
> >> "Join or leave the list".
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
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> >>
> >> If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which
> >> FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
> >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select
> >> "Join or leave the list".
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
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> >>
> >> If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which
> >> FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
> >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select
> >> "Join or leave the list".
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or
> leave the list".
> >
> > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
> administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select
> "Join or leave the list".
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or
> leave the list".
> >
> > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
> administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select
> "Join or leave the list".
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or
> leave the list".
>
> If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
> administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select
> "Join or leave the list".
> ______________________________________________________________
> ______________________________________________________________ To
> UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or
> leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list
> - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed -
> visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and
> select "Join or leave the list".

--
Ralph F. Grove, Jr., Ph.D., Associate Professor
James Madison University Department of Computer Science

______________________________________________________________
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