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VADCFLL-L  December 2008

VADCFLL-L December 2008

Subject:

Re: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback sheets

From:

David Levy <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

David Levy <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:01:44 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (242 lines)

"Find a mid-point between parents and teachers who help build/program 
and for those who are only children made. "

I've heard this before.  Does anyone have the impression that adults are 
building and programming mission solutions for the kids?   If so then 
please have those individuals review the "My Promise as Coach" on page 
iii  of the FLL Coaches Handbook. (see below)   Promise 2. clearly 
states "The children on my team do all of the programming, research, 
problem solving, and building. ..."
MY PROMISE as coach:

1) The children come first. FLL is about the children having fun and 
getting  excited about science and technology. Everything my team does 
starts and ends with this principle.

2) The children do the work.  This is their opportunity to learn and 
grow. The children on my team do all of the programming, research, 
problem solving, and building. Adults can help them find the answers, 
but cannot give them answers or make decisions.

dl



Salas, Alex wrote:
> I second this thread. I think it is healthy to speak out and exchange ideas. Some of the things said yesterday and today, have only been comments at pits. It's time we exteriorize them, we could be wrong. 
> I do agree, that we should focus more in science, less in costumes and elaborated presentations.
> Find a mid-point between parents and teachers who help build/program and for those who are only children made. Schools or groups who meet everyday and put on hold everything else to concentrate on the competition, while others have only a couple after school meetings. Or just teach our children, that real life is like that and everybody's reality is different, but compete in the same ground.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nicholas Duan
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:52 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback sheets
>
> I can't agree more, considering the fact that about half of the awards/trophies were given to adults, not kids.  If I was a young child, waiting in the hallway and going though the closing ceremony after a long day would be very tiring, and there isn't much value-added in the spirit of FLL and learning.  If I was a kid, I'd like to have fun and more excitement at the closing ceremony:
>
> 1. Skip the team intro entirely (we could save at least an hour).  Let the kids enter the gym freely, play some dance music (just like the closing ceremony at the Beijing Olympics).  It's party time!  
>
> 2. Give awards only to kids, not adults.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't recognize the contribution of our volunteers, but this may not be the right time.  We may find another way to give out the volunteer awards, for instance, having a party for adults/volunteers/parents/coaches the night before.  Or hosting a parent/coach conference for exchanging ideas in coaching/judging/parenting, while the kids were doing their activities.
>
> 3. After announcing the winners, have each one do a live presentation to the whole audience, and have the judges providing comments on the uniqueness of each winner.  This will give our kids another opportunities to learn, and also eliminate any doubts about fairness of the judging process.
>
> FLL is all about kids getting interested and learning science and technology.  If we could focus on this goal, coaching/judging/running the championship will become much simpler and easier...
>
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rakesh Bahadur <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:19 pm
> Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] FW: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback sheets
>
>   
>> Let me share my observations as a rookie coach. 
>>
>>
>>
>> FLL need to de-emphasise award giving and put more emphasis on 
>> learning. As long as awards are given at the end of the 
>> tournament, winning will be the major driver of participation. In 
>> FLL spirit (all about having fun and not about winning), just give 
>> only two awards, one for div 1 champi on and othe r for div 2 
>> champion. 
>>
>>
>>
>> Robotics and FLL is all about science and engineering. For 
>> anything to be scientific, it must be quantifiable and verifiable. 
>> Judgement at regional and state FLL tournament (team work, 
>> project, design) does not meet that criteria. A quantitative 
>> criteria will be always preferred over a qualitative one. 
>>
>>
>>
>> FLL should decide 
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Whether it wants to  stay in the realm of sound science or soft 
>> science. 
>>
>> 2. What  it wants to stand for?  L earning by the teams or 
>> competing parents/coaches. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rakesh 
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Rusty West" <[log in to unmask]> 
>> To: [log in to unmask] 
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:11:48 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada 
>> Eastern 
>> Subject: [VADCFLL-L] FW: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback 
>> sheets 
>>
>> I want to take a second to present MY OPINION and I don't mean to 
>> preach. 
>> This is just for others to consider when planning for next year. 
>>
>> I do agree with you and after 8 years as an FLL Division 2 coach I 
>> am sure 
>> your philosophy is the right way to go.  I now have former team 
>> members in 
>> college, studying engineering,  who come back and tell me how FLL 
>> helped 
>> them.  I can do the programming and build but I NEVER NEVER NEVER 
>> touch the 
>> robot or the keyboard for programming.  I don't even carry it 
>> around at the 
>> competitions.  At the state competition I saw coaches helping to 
>> build on 
>> the robot and typing the programming without any kids standing 
>> around. 
>> Those team members were missing out on a learning moment because 
>> their coach 
>> was doing the work.  In the technical room my kids told the judges 
>> that I 
>> had told them I was a "FACILITATOR" in practice and they had never 
>> seen me 
>> put two Legos together.  I only answer a question with another 
>> question that 
>> will help guide them to find the answer.   I know the coaches that 
>> help the 
>> kids with building and programming have the best of intentions but 
>> they just 
>> don't understand that mistakes and frustration are part of the 
>> learning 
>> process.  My kids can recite that " Thomas Edison had 600 failures 
>> before he 
>> got the light bulb to work" because I preach that to them when 
>> they get 
>> frustrated. 
>>
>> My other concern is that I see too much Odessy of the Mind ( OM 
>> )creeping 
>> into FLL.  Teams spend too much time on their costumes, give 
>> aways, and 
>> other props instead of focusing on the engineering and actual 
>> science.  This 
>> is about robotics and engineering.  OM is a fine competition and 
>> has it's 
>> place.  FLL should be about engineering and science, not cute 
>> costumes 
>> ( beyond t shirts ) and other fluff.  I don't know of any team 
>> that couldn't 
>> use more practice time and taking time away to do fluff means less 
>> engineering practice time.  If teams have so much extra time they 
>> should go 
>> on to program in RobotC.  I haven't gotten to that point yet with 
>> my kids 
>> but wish I could. 
>>
>> I don't mean to rant, just throwing my opinion out there for 
>> consideration. 
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: vadcfll championship tournament 
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 
>> Donna 
>> Cornett 
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:47 AM 
>> To: [log in to unmask] 
>> Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] Judging feedback sheets 
>>
>> I only have one question - - Are the KIDS reading these emails?? 
>> I'm 
>> retiring this year so I guess I can speak my mind without fear of 
>> retribution :-) but everyone please remember that it is the team 
>> members who 
>> need to know how to do these things - - not us! I couldn't run my 
>> team's 
>> missions if my life depended on it. That is  their job. Mine is to 
>> guide and 
>> ask questions that they may not have thought of. I realize that 
>> I'm sort of 
>> obsessed on this topic, but please, everyone, keep this in mind as 
>> you are 
>> letting each other know how to do things that the kids need to 
>> figure out. 
>>
>> Sorry for the diatribe! 
>>
>>
>> Donna Cornett 
>> Gifted Specialist 
>> Eagle Ridge Middle School 
>> 42901 Waxpool Road 
>> Ashburn, VA 20148 
>> 571-252-2140 
>>
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit 
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>> select 
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>>
>> ______________________________________________________________ 
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>>
>> If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which 
>> FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit 
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>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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>> FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit 
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".
>
> If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".
>
> If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".
>   

______________________________________________________________
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