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VADCFLL-L  September 2009

VADCFLL-L September 2009

Subject:

Re: Guide wall problems

From:

VA/DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

VA/DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:59:54 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (166 lines)

Hello folks--
  I have to step in here.  FIRST does not recommend that teams use anything
to hold mission models together other than press-fitting LEGO pieces
together and attaching them to the mat with Dual-Lock, or other specific
instructions provided with the mission models assembly instructions.

  And teams should not do it of their own volition.

  Why?  Although Darlene is correct and SOME tournaments may use a fixative
on SOME mission models on SOME tables, your FLL team can not count on the
mission models at a tournament being any firmer/stronger than press-fitting
allows.

  Since some robots do take advantage of mission models as an aid in
navigation, it is best to assume that the models won't be any stronger than
the least strong they could be (you have to assume the model is properly
assembled, of course.)

  A robot that impacts a mission model and damages it, because the robot
expected it to provide more resistance than it did, will:
a)  get a reminder from the referee to be more careful with the models, and
b)  probably not have the results it expected



Second point:  (Rule 27)  Field Damage (i.e. damage to mission models) is
corrected by the referee, if possible.

Field Damage that happens multiple times by a robot is less likely to get
the Benefit of the Doubt with regard to scoring, because it starts to look
intentional, rather than accidental.


Third point:  Yes, other people have noted that the guide walls are somewhat
fragile if the raised joints are not protected when the walls are pressed
down to the table.  Apparently an object the thickness of a quarter is just
the right size to put under a joint when pressing on it.

I do promise that the VA/DC referees will be asked to pay close attention to
the structural integrity of the guide walls during tournaments.


Steve Scherr
VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:04:38 -0400, Darlene Pantaleo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Tournament directors often glue fragile game components together.
>
>
>On Sep 24, 2009, at 10:06 PM, Eric Palmer wrote:
>
>> I'll have to go back and read the rule again about if we damage the
>> guide
>> walls unintentionally. They are just a fragile design.  But if the
>> walls are
>> not solid it may change the behavior of the robots and the time it
>> takes for
>> the judges to piece them together may be a factor.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    ---
>> Eric F. Palmer
>> [log in to unmask]
>> FLL 2009 Team 956 Coach
>> FLL 2009 Team 882 Mentor
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laura Dysart [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:02 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Cc: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Guide wall problems
>>
>> Will it matter if the guide walls are down? I assume it's affecting
>> your
>> strategy? Doesn't seem like anyone will be penalized if the walls
>> go down?
>> Just trying to figure out the concern.... Laura On Sep 24, 2009, at
>> 9:53 PM,
>> Eric Palmer wrote:
>>
>>> Problems with the yellow guide walls persist. After repeated runs
>>> with
>>> our robot the walls are not holding up and are hard to get firmly
>>> back
>>> together.
>>>
>>> The problems is that the Velcro like material lifts the sections
>>> it is
>>> adhered to and the other sections are now not at the same level.  We
>>> can fix this at the home table (use more of the Velcro like stuff, or
>>> glue the pieces).  But I'm concerned that at tournament the walls are
>>> going to get destroyed and be hard to put together well and in a
>>> timely way.
>>>
>>> Are you having problems with the guide walls as well?  Do you have
>>> solutions?
>>>
>>> Eric Palmer
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> FLL 2009 Team 956 Coach
>>> FLL 2009 Team 882 Mentor
>>> THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS
>>>
>>> == Team 956 Sponsors ===
>>> Signature Consulting
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>>>
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>>>
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