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October 2011

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From:
VA/DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
VA/DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:38:02 -0400
Content-Type:
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Thanks for clarifying.  I did not understand that the question was
about how to administer the Robot Game fairly.  I thought the question
was whether the team could ask to have some bacteria removed from the
field, which is not allowed.

And I apologize for the misunderstanding.  Update 25 takes precedence
over Rule 19--so the entire container and bacteria (most likely)
belong to the team in Base.

In terms of what's "fair":
For the particular case of Food Factor "bad" bacteria, there's no real
advantage to the team to having them in Base, except that it gives
them a chance to be move to the sink.  I'll be surprised in the next
few weeks if we see any team move more than half of one dispenser's
bacteria to the sink--there's so much other stuff to do, too.  So
getting all of the bacteria or half is probably not going to have an
impact.

I will comment that this is a good discussion.  I am in the middle of
an exchange with Scott right now about a similar type of situation,
and I think that we may not be communicating clearly, either!

Steve Scherr
VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor


On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:01 AM, B Bergenstock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I'm sorry but I don't understand this ruling as it applies to my question...
>
>> My standard answer is "the team can ASK, but the referee can't do it,
>> since the rules don't allow it...."
>>
>> Rule 19:
>> • Anything done to your field outside Base by your legally active
>> ROBOT stays that way, unless the ROBOT changes it.
>
> The robot brought most in base, so the robot changed it.  Some are now in
> base. I'm trying to work within the rules of "in base" while still not
> allowing the team to profit from those that were not brought in base by the
> robot, which would be unfair.
>
> But what I get is that if the whole container isn't in base the refs will
> (most likely) get rid of all of them.
>>
>> • Objects moved are not replaced or moved out of the way by hand.
>
> Noted.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:44 AM, B Bergenstock <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> > Hmmm... could it be the case that the kids say to the refs- "please
>> > remove
>> > the ones not in base?" before touching the robot?
>> > Brandy
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Stephen Scherr <[log in to unmask]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The referees should follow the guidance in Update 25.
>> >>
>> >> 25 - BACTERIA CLUSTER ENTERING BASE
>> >> If a cluster of several objects is entering Base but not all
>> >> individuals are in yet, and you touch the robot, Rule 18 Bullet #3,
>> >> and Rule 21 together mean the ref should take away the ones that
>> >> hadn't made it to Base yet (correct, but REALLY?)  In practice though,
>> >> it's tough to win an argument about which ones were in or out, so
>> >> referees usually either treat the cluster as a single object, (nice,
>> >> but incorrect), or they stretch the Benefit-Of-The-Doubt rule too much
>> >> (nice, but sloppy, and inconsistent).   This needs to be repaired in
>> >> the Rules, but here's your exception for now:  When the robot is
>> >> moving a continuous cluster of bacteria into Base, they are to be
>> >> treated as one object.  As soon as the first is in, they're all in.
>> >> Two separate clusters are assessed separately, and fish, rats, pizza,
>> >> and ice cream will still also be assessed individually.
>> >>
>> >> I haven't seen your container, but I would say that it is likely that
>> >> it is all in in your scenario.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:26 AM, B Bergenstock <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > OK- a scenario from my team.  Occasionally the robot does not make a
>> >> > turn
>> >> > back as far as it is programed to go, but it usually hits the
>> >> > bacteria
>> >> > tray
>> >> > on its way back to base (the one closest to the base near the yellow
>> >> > ball),
>> >> > then almost always spins itself into the base.  The container the
>> >> > kids
>> >> > used
>> >> > to catch the bacteria is half in and half out of base, which means
>> >> > not
>> >> > all
>> >> > the bacteria are in base when they need to retrieve it.
>> >> >   Would all those bacterium get taken out, or some? Just wondering so
>> >> > I
>> >> > can
>> >> > tell the kids what to expect (most of the time) from the judges when
>> >> > that
>> >> > happens.
>> >> > Brandy

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