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VADCFLL-L  October 2011

VADCFLL-L October 2011

Subject:

Re: clarification on touching the robot when it returns to base

From:

Stephen Scherr <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Stephen Scherr <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 29 Oct 2011 09:41:35 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (161 lines)

The referees should follow the guidance in Update 25.

25 - BACTERIA CLUSTER ENTERING BASE
If a cluster of several objects is entering Base but not all
individuals are in yet, and you touch the robot, Rule 18 Bullet #3,
and Rule 21 together mean the ref should take away the ones that
hadn't made it to Base yet (correct, but REALLY?)  In practice though,
it's tough to win an argument about which ones were in or out, so
referees usually either treat the cluster as a single object, (nice,
but incorrect), or they stretch the Benefit-Of-The-Doubt rule too much
(nice, but sloppy, and inconsistent).   This needs to be repaired in
the Rules, but here's your exception for now:  When the robot is
moving a continuous cluster of bacteria into Base, they are to be
treated as one object.  As soon as the first is in, they're all in.
Two separate clusters are assessed separately, and fish, rats, pizza,
and ice cream will still also be assessed individually.

I haven't seen your container, but I would say that it is likely that
it is all in in your scenario.

Steve

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:26 AM, B Bergenstock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> OK- a scenario from my team.  Occasionally the robot does not make a turn
> back as far as it is programed to go, but it usually hits the bacteria tray
> on its way back to base (the one closest to the base near the yellow ball),
> then almost always spins itself into the base.  The container the kids used
> to catch the bacteria is half in and half out of base, which means not all
> the bacteria are in base when they need to retrieve it.
>   Would all those bacterium get taken out, or some? Just wondering so I can
> tell the kids what to expect (most of the time) from the judges when that
> happens.
> Brandy
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:43 AM, VA/DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Sonya, that is correct.  If the item hasn't crossed into Base, and it
>> came from out in the field (the robot didn't bring it out of Base when
>> it left), then the item would be taken out of play by the referee when
>> the robot was touched.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Sonya Shaver <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > Thanks, Steve!  So, if the robot has an attachment on it that has
>> > grabbed
>> > something, and then comes back to base, and the robot is all the way
>> > back in
>> > base, but has an attachment still dangling out of base that has the item
>> > attached to it, then they could lose the item if the touch the robot?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:45 PM, VA/DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Rule 18 tells what happens when you touch the robot or its cargo.  It
>> >> includes a Warning: "Avoid touching a robot entering Base until its
>> >> cargo has also reached Base!"
>> >>
>> >> The bottom line is that the team will usually not want to touch the
>> >> robot or its cargo until the robot itself and each of its cargo items
>> >> have crossed into Base.
>> >>
>> >> The position of each item is determined independently (Rule 21) and
>> >> cargo that has not crossed into Base may be lost (Rule 18).
>> >>
>> >> There are also several Robot Game Updates that give more details on
>> >> specific cases:
>> >> Update 24, Multi-part models, tells us that the yellow farm truck and
>> >> its contents are treated as a single object--if one is in Base, then
>> >> all are in Base.  Similarly the white refrigerated trailer and its
>> >> contents are treated as a single object for entering Base.
>> >> Update 25, Bacteria Cluster Entering Base, tells us that distinct
>> >> continuous clusters of bacteria will be treated as one object for
>> >> purposes of entering Base.  It also reminds us that this doesn't apply
>> >> to other mission models.
>> >>
>> >> Update 30, from this week, doesn't talk about Base, but it does give
>> >> some examples about when a mission model is cargo.
>> >>
>> >> Steve Scherr
>> >> VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Sonya Shaver <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> > Can I ask a question to clarify when you can touch the robot when it
>> >> > returns
>> >> > to base in between programs?
>> >> > In past years, the team could grab the robot as soon as a portion of
>> >> > the
>> >> > robot had clearly entered base.  But I think I read something in a
>> >> > question
>> >> > on this list about cargo needing to be in base too.  So, can you
>> >> > clarify
>> >> > about that?  For example, if the robot has an attachment that has
>> >> > grabbed
>> >> > some item off the table to bring it back to base, then when the robot
>> >> > comes
>> >> > back to base, once a part of the robot has clearly entered base, can
>> >> > the
>> >> > team member still grab the robot?  Even if the cargo is still out of
>> >> > base,
>> >> > but is attached to the attachment on the robot?  Am I being clear?
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> > Sonya in Harrisonburg
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