I resonate deeply with what Gregg wrote below - especially having a
problem with the degree of postmodernism in the Church of Belief Science
and the lack of integrating that perspective with science. I think I would
attend an ASH academy :-)
andre

On 12/6/18, 7:20 AM, "tree of knowledge system discussion on behalf of
Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>  Thanks for these wonderful reflections. Corinne, I love the sound of
>the "Kalogenic Universe."
>
>  My reaction to the Church of Belief site was split. First, as folks who
>know me know, I am not a huge fan of "Church" in a traditional sense. Nor
>am I a huge fan of post-modernism. And I did not see anywhere in the
>"doctrine" the relationship between postmodernism and science. And it had
>a cultish, creepy feel, at one level, which probably was mostly a
>projection as I looked more into it.
>
> My positives, however, were more significant. Echoing Martin and Chance,
>folks need something to flock together...and, I would add, to do so with
>love in their hearts. Indeed, this is the best thing, IMO, about churches
>and religions. And, right now, this is something that we are socially
>losing. Our fragmented pluralistic society lacks a shared vision that
>folks can organize around with love in their hearts.
>
>My family discussed this idea some. I asked Jon (17, senior) what a
>Church meant to him and he said a place where people worship a God. Andee
>did not like the idea or sound of a "Church," but liked the idea of an
>academy or school or movement of some sort. My daughter Lanie (who is 14
>and a freshman) and I spent about 30 minutes talking about what we would
>"believe and value" if we started a "church-like" thing. After some time,
>we called it an "academy" and we would invest in that academy with "lived
>practices" that would have beliefs and values. The name we came up with
>was "The Academy for the Advancement of Science and Humanistic Living"
>(ASH worked as initials, because they are Andee's 😊). Here are some of
>the things we jotted down, broken down into beliefs, values, and
>practices, without much wordsmithing or worrying about overlap:
>
>Beliefs
>We "believe in" science and math as ways to get at truth about reality
>The universe is evolving and changing, and has since the Big
>Bang/beginning
>Humans are very small in some ways (e.g., space/time size relative to the
>vast vastness). 
>But human knowledge and human experience are very important--basically
>this is everything. (This and the former point gave us a
>nothing-everything tension).
>Humans are changing the planet in many ways
>
>Values
>We want to increase or contribute to beauty, truth and goodness
>We want to increase love
>We want to decrease evil
>We want to increase morality and wisdom
>We noted my ultimate value justification, Be that which enhances dignity,
>well-being, and integrity
>
>Practices (Activities, Seeking and Learning)
>Being kind to others (and one's self)
>Seeking a life filled with productive work, love, and play
>Seeking meaning and purpose
>Seeking ways to grow/develop/mature
>Learning about science
>Learning about the humanities
>
>That was not a bad 30 minute exercise.
>
>Best,
>Gregg
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tree of knowledge system discussion
><[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Diop, Corinne Joan Martin -
>diopcj
>Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 11:45 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Church of Belief Science?
>
>I also found the Church of Belief Science really compelling-- except for
>the word "church" (a reaction similar to Chance's), the blatant
>recruitment for priests and donations on the home page, and that the
>canons must be upheld no matter what. The canons seem like a good code of
>ethics and not too difficult to agree about, except I had issue with the
>one on "Responsible Parenthood and Guardianship" that says, "A child is
>someone from conception in a maternal environment (or embryonic insertion
>in a maternal environment) up to, but not including, the age of 18" since
>it seems set up to be a bit anti-choice-- like suggesting the zygote is
>immediately considered someone and a child... it is also not clear why
>the brink of 18 is a magic cut off for childhood.
>
>As for Bahai... I went to the Bahai Temple in Wilmette, IL out of
>curiosity, back when I was still more shopping around for community than
>I am now. The tour guide talked about the 9 entrances for the 9 major
>religions, a nice symbolism, but I have a good friend who is  neo-Pagan
>so I asked about the entrance for that or for indigenous religions. The
>guide said they value all religions for the stage they are at, and
>neo-Paganism would be like kindergarten. Bahai is the final stage, of
>course. That hierarchical thinking squelched any further interest.
>
>Anyway, back to the anti-choice thing... does anyone know Brian Henning
>or read his work? I remember reading his ideas about the Kalogenic
>Universe, about evolution generating beauty, and also about making
>choices that have the most overall beautiful results. Like when there are
>less unwanted births the murder rate goes down, so even though curbing
>births might not be an obviously beautiful choice at first, it might be
>overall. (I can't find the source for that anymore-- it's from the days
>of hard copies rather than scans and links... and I am thinking he may
>have rewritten that.)
>
>I caught up on reading these posts and links instead of what I was
>supposed to be doing, but I am fairly certain that was the most kalogenic
>choice...
>
>Thank you!
>Corinne
>
>
>
>Corinne Diop
>Professor of Art
>JMU
>
>________________________________________
>From: tree of knowledge system discussion
>[[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Chance McDermott
>[[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:30 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Church of Belief Science?
>
>Thank you for sharing, Gregg.  I like what Martin had to say about people
>needing to "flock" together towards an image, even if that image were to
>lead to a dead end.
>
>I would be curious to know more about the success religions like Belief
>Science these days, as, right or wrong, I am hit with negative emotional
>reactions from three directions.  The first is organized religion itself,
>which I have an aversive reaction towards due to being raised in a
>conservative Christian environment (this aversive reaction has matured
>into a healthy defensiveness rather than the hot antagonism I felt as a
>younger person, but nonetheless the gut response remains).  Secondly,
>Scientology is the prominent example of how manufactured religions can go
>awry, and so "Belief Science" triggers that association.  Thirdly, there
>is the ingrained concern about being drawn into small cults, and Belief
>Science gives me that feeling as well.
>
>Again, these are emotional reactions from my own personal web of
>experiences and associations.  On a descriptive level, the religion looks
>reasonable on paper.  The organization seems self aware and transparent
>that Belief Science is there to meet a basic human need for belonging and
>community, and that Belief Science has been mindful about constructing
>itself in such a way that an in-group is achieved without creating a
>hostile relationship with the resulting out-group, and does so with a
>meta-awareness that beliefs are culturally contextual.  It reminded me of
>a more secular Bahai.
>
>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki
>_Bah-25C3-25A1-2527-25C3-25AD-5FFaith&d=DwIDaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMH
>BeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=fAX9xBiqC7Jpwi5bcf42BpKio-w7hhMYFN9VxTHChls&m=IAcy0bv
>C9QgfVmvEcQOj23G6N41SJopjqpfV434PGYw&s=WMHi_GyjqguLEKjpAqoRrJKLKhkQgId4gkd
>MMw21dX4&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipe
>dia.org_wiki_Bah-25C3-25A1-2527-25C3-25AD-5FFaith&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBC
>gmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4
>-A&m=WHzD-_dBTq077iXFuqtPUd-4ARONlIkWP5zbFKpjfsc&s=p5QOi66CCDWHRRXnrivHeFT
>bM6biBt0rPbwdtPuzsyU&e=>
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 7:32 AM martin johnson
><[log in to unmask]<mailto:000000f7ecb10059-d
>[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
>I would say "it is meaningful to have a  belief in what is 'true'," in he
>comtext of saying that animals also function by images, imagives appear
>as imagination, animals traveling as a group to a destination where there
>is food, water, have an an image of where they are going, and a belief
>they will get they. It is crucial to survival. Having images and beliefs
>is crucial to human survival -- even though sometimes a group belief
>leads to a dead end. It is in nature and an essential to human
>functioning to have beliefs, and meaningfull. When a new truth arrises
>and displaces the old truth, that is part of the process of culture. This
>view depends on the assertion that reality only exists in contexts, that
>there is no objective truth, object in the sense of existing without
>context. It is hubris to say one has the TRUTH, which scientist sometimes
>say (as in physical scientist claiming a corner on how science has to be
>performed.) Martin Johnson
>
>On Dec 4, 2018 10:21 AM, "Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx"
><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi List,
>>
>>   I stumbled across this site, the Church of Belief Science and found
>>it interesting. It adopts a postmodern, social constructivist view of
>>religion and belief in general, meaning that the focus and meaning of
>>truth is found in what people consensually agree to be true. The founder
>>is a psychologist/counselor whom I had heard of, but I was not aware
>>that he started this group.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Gregg
>>
>> ############################
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>>mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:TOK-SOCIETY-
>>[log in to unmask]> or click the following link:
>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listserv.jmu.edu_cgi-
>>2Dbin_wa-3FSUBED1-3DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-26A-3D1&d=DwIDaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGE
>>paQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=fAX9xBiqC7Jpwi5bcf42BpKio-w7hhMYFN9VxTHChls
>>&m=IAcy0bvC9QgfVmvEcQOj23G6N41SJopjqpfV434PGYw&s=iiSbcKAGFSb0YFP43S-PoIrv
>>hu3mEp6WuIJ5pgYWNQc&e=
>
>############################
>
>To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:TOK-SO
>[log in to unmask]> or click the following link:
>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listserv.jmu.edu_cgi-2
>Dbin_wa-3FSUBED1-3DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-26A-3D1&d=DwIDaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpa
>Qh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=fAX9xBiqC7Jpwi5bcf42BpKio-w7hhMYFN9VxTHChls&m=
>IAcy0bvC9QgfVmvEcQOj23G6N41SJopjqpfV434PGYw&s=iiSbcKAGFSb0YFP43S-PoIrvhu3m
>Ep6WuIJ5pgYWNQc&e=
>
>############################
>
>To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to:
>mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:TOK-SO
>[log in to unmask]> or click the following link:
>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listserv.jmu.edu_cgi-2
>Dbin_wa-3FSUBED1-3DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-26A-3D1&d=DwIDaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpa
>Qh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=fAX9xBiqC7Jpwi5bcf42BpKio-w7hhMYFN9VxTHChls&m=
>IAcy0bvC9QgfVmvEcQOj23G6N41SJopjqpfV434PGYw&s=iiSbcKAGFSb0YFP43S-PoIrvhu3m
>Ep6WuIJ5pgYWNQc&e=
>
>############################
>
>To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list:
>write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
>or click the following link:
>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listserv.jmu.edu_cgi-2
>Dbin_wa-3FSUBED1-3DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-26A-3D1&d=DwIDaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpa
>Qh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=fAX9xBiqC7Jpwi5bcf42BpKio-w7hhMYFN9VxTHChls&m=
>IAcy0bvC9QgfVmvEcQOj23G6N41SJopjqpfV434PGYw&s=iiSbcKAGFSb0YFP43S-PoIrvhu3m
>Ep6WuIJ5pgYWNQc&e=
>
>############################
>
>To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list:
>write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
>or click the following link:
>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listserv.jmu.edu_cgi-2
>Dbin_wa-3FSUBED1-3DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-26A-3D1&d=DwIDaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpa
>Qh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=fAX9xBiqC7Jpwi5bcf42BpKio-w7hhMYFN9VxTHChls&m=
>IAcy0bvC9QgfVmvEcQOj23G6N41SJopjqpfV434PGYw&s=iiSbcKAGFSb0YFP43S-PoIrvhu3m
>Ep6WuIJ5pgYWNQc&e=

############################

To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list:
write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
or click the following link:
http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1