research on the effect of Robotics experiences on student achievemen= t

Hello Coaches, mentors and Friends,

Most of you may have read Michael Allison's Sterling2 coverage in the Washington Post. If not you can read this through her Math Blog. Please comment or suggest your opinions in her blog.

Desh Deshmukh

From: Michael Chandler

Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:10 AM
To: Deshmukh, Gajanan K. (NE)
Subject: Re: FW: NOVA FLL Chantilly & Sterling

Hey Desh, Thanks for telling me about the competition.

If you have time, share your success on the blog!

Michael Alison Chandler
Washington Post staff writer

Stop by my math blog...
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/x-equals-why/

Kevin, =

I am in the same boat you are, I = coach 2 FLL teams going to state and an FTC team, all of which are competing on = the same weekend. I know there are huge logistical problems with = scheduling these two events and getting the facilities, but it would be nice if they were = on different weekends. I love working with both groups and was = suddenly blindsided by not paying attention to the schedules until the FLL teams = got selected for the state tournament. Suddenly my calendar runneth = over. Kudos for all that the folks on the state FLL and FTC level do and I think = with luck we can try to avoid another simultaneous tournament weekend for = next year.

Rusty = West

FLL 672 = 673

FTC = 2823

From: First = Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of KevinHines
Sent: Tuesday, November = 18, 2008 10:11 PM
To: = [log in to unmask]
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Va = FLL & FTC tournaments on same weekend

Alex, thanks for mentioning this... =

I am in that position, of coaching a FLL team & mentoring an FTC team, and fortunately, my FTC team = is planning to compete at an out of state tournament, otherwise, I'd have = to choose to attend either the Va FLL *or* FTC = tournament this year, which would be painful.

I'd like to volunteer at the FTC tournament, but = I'll be at the FLL tournament that weekend, so I'll miss the FTC = tournament.

How can we avoid having both Virginia state tournaments for FLL = & FTC on the same date in the future?

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Hines
FLL & FTC Coach

[log in to unmask]
www.RoanokeRobotics.org

-----Original = Message-----
From: First Lego League = Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Salas, Alex
Sent: Tuesday, November = 18, 2008 8:32 AM
To: = [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] = Thomas Jefferson (TJHSST) Exam on Dec. 6th

I guess it = is very hard to manage and keep in mind all the possible dates and events that = happen at the same time. Another same day event is the FTC at Charlottesville. Somebody forgot = that many people involved in FLL, are also part of FTC or FRC. Maybe, one more = thing to consider for next year.

<= /o:p>

From: First = Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brittany Rose
Sent: Monday, November = 17, 2008 11:18 PM
To: = [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] = Thomas Jefferson (TJHSST) Exam on Dec. 6th

Good = evening,

I just wanted to let everyone know = that we are aware of this issue and Nick Swayne, VA/DC FLL's Executive = Director, is in touch with the admissions director at TJHSST to help work towards a solution. If your team is impacted by this situation, please send = a note off the list with your team's details to [log in to unmask] and we will be sure to keep you apprised of the = outcome.

Best = regards,

Brittany

---
Brittany Rose
VA/DC FIRST LEGO League
www.vadcfll.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marie Kobayashi" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:52:30 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada = Eastern
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Thomas Jefferson (TJHSST) Exam on Dec. = 6th

Hello,

I am wanting to get some feedback = as well as provide some feedback to those teams/parents in the Northern Virginia area with 8th graders that are signed up to take = the TJ Exam on Dec. 6th and headed to the State Tournament during that same = weekend.

Phil Smith had announced at = the Sterling 2 awards ceremony that VA/DC FLL had = become aware that the test date is during the morning of the 1st tournament = day, and that FLL would do what it could to help.

I did speak with him after the competition and shared that I would also try to contact the TJ = admissions Office.

I have contacted Ms. Judith = Howard, who heads the TJ Admissions office, to ask about what options are available = for those students that are experiencing this date conflict. I know = that it is possible to request an alternate test date, but I'm sure that that = will be difficult to get approved.

I am wondering, out of curiosity, = how many teams and also how many team members = from each team are affected by this = conflict?

Also, is your team a school-sponsored = team?

This type of feedback will be = helpful for both VA/DC FLL as well as the TJ Admissions Office to help facilitate accommodations.

Our team is small, with 3 members, = but 2 out of the 3 are sitting for the Exam.

We are not a school-sponsored = team, per se.

Please would you post a response, giving the above info, if you are dealing with this = same issue?

I will also let you know as I hear = back from Ms. Howard.

Thanks very = much!

Marie = Kobayashi

Vector 67 (Team = 6767)

Reston, Virginia

___________________________________= ___________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join = or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - = to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select = "Join or leave the list".

______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join = or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - = to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select = "Join or leave the list".

Eric

My son and others at the same high school have also had their volunteer hours denied by the school for mentoring FLL teams and demonstrating FIRST Robotics at the State Fair, Libraries, etc for the last 3 years. My son was told by the "community service in charge" at the school that the State Fair was a "for profit" because they charged admission. If you Google it, it clearly tells you the the State Fair of Virginia is a 501 3 c but this person did not even bother to check it out. We have just about opted not to worry about getting "credit" for community service at this high school and county. They have a preconcieved notion of what that is and giving hours of your time sharing science and engineering with other children is not one of them. You can get credit tutoring priviledged kids at the elementary school across the street from the high school and I have witnessed kids sitting around socializing with each other while they earn credit for community service at other places. I know my son and others on the team work hard when they volunteer for FLL, the State Fair, etc because I am usually there with them. These kids put in countless hours and love every minute of it. Their passion and commitment is truly amazing.

Let me know if I can help educate the County of Henrico.

Ann Kutz

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Palmer <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 8:38 pm
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] FLL and Henrico County Schools Community Service - need help.

My daughter's High School has denied approval for her community service work

at the FLL Maggie Walker tournament for what seems like dubious reasons.

(Deep Run High School).

For example:

What exactly was the charity work she did? Well she did work for a

501(c)(3) which is a charity so by definition the work is charity

The Event wasn't specifically designated for minority or underserved

children was it? As they acknowledge that FLL benefits those specific types

of children.

I have appealed to the county and the county is defending the actions of the

HS. I am aware of other HS young adults getting approval at Maggie Walker

for Henrico Community Service Hours.

Frankly I'm a bit shocked by the whole thing. So are FLL staff that I have

communicated with.

I have reviewed the written rules and FLL qualified on all counts - see

http://www.henrico.k12.va.us/students/volunteer.html

I'd like to hear if other young adults have been approved for FLL, FTC or

FRC volunteer hours (my daughter volunteers at all 3) or if you are aware of

denials as well. I'm trying to build a case on consistency and fairness.

They have rules, don't go beyond the rules. I don't need the names of the

people just the high school involved and the action that the school took.

Advice and information about other Young Adult volunteer hours is welcome.

Thanks

Eric F. Palmer

[log in to unmask]

http://VitalJourney.org - Blog

______________________________________________________________

To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html

and select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL

administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html

and select "Join or leave the list".

Traveling over the river or through the woods this holiday season? Get the MapQuest Toolbar. Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More!

Folks,

Help educate a home school dad in Augusta = county. The thread about Henrico county not accepting FLL as a community service = project seems to indicate there is a requirement for the public school kids = there to have so many hours of community service. Is that mandated by the = local school board, the school itself, or through state requirements? = I’ve never heard about this before this came up on the list this week and am = interested in what is required of the kids.

-Frank=

Eric,=20 Henrico county and eleven other cities and counties = pay for=20 slots for their students to attend Maggie Walker regional governor's=20 school. Maggie Walker has a mandatory community service = requirement to=20 earn a high school diploma. It might interest Henrico County = Public=20 Schools ("HCPS") to know that Maggie Walker students, regardless of the = home=20 school system, receive community service credit toward their diploma by=20 mentoring FLL teams and assisting at tournaments. FLL related = activities=20 have been approved at Maggie Walker since at least 2006 when I began = enlisting=20 their students to mentor FLL teams. Phil Tharp, Director of = Administration=20 at Maggie Walker was my contact.

Charlie Aldridge

[log in to unmask]

----- Original Message -----

From: "Eric Palmer" <[log in to unmask]>

To: <[log in to unmask]>

Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:38 = PM

Subject: [VADCFLL-L] FLL and Henrico = County Schools=20 Community Service - need help.

> My daughter's High School has denied approval for her = community=20 service work
> at the FLL Maggie Walker tournament for what seems = like=20 dubious reasons.
> (Deep Run High School).
>
> For = example:=20
>
> What exactly was the charity work she did? Well = she did=20 work for a
> 501(c)(3) which is a charity so by definition the = work is=20 charity
>
> The Event wasn't specifically designated for = minority=20 or underserved
> children was it? As they acknowledge that FLL = benefits=20 those specific types
> of children.
>
> I have = appealed to the county and the county is defending the actions of = the
>=20 HS. I am aware of other HS young adults getting approval at Maggie = Walker
> for Henrico Community Service Hours.
>
> = Frankly=20 I'm a bit shocked by the whole thing. So are FLL staff that I = have
>=20 communicated with.
>
> I have reviewed the written rules = and FLL=20 qualified on all counts - see
> http://www.henrico.k12.va.us/students/volunteer.html<= BR>>
> I'd like to hear if other young = adults have been=20 approved for FLL, FTC or
> FRC volunteer hours (my daughter = volunteers at=20 all 3) or if you are aware of
> denials as well. I'm trying = to build=20 a case on consistency and fairness.
> They have rules, don't go = beyond the=20 rules. I don't need the names of the
> people just the high school = involved and the action that the school took.
>
> Advice = and=20 information about other Young Adult volunteer hours is welcome.
> =
>=20 Thanks
>
>
> Eric F. Palmer
> [log in to unmask]
> http://VitalJourney.org = - Blog
>=20
> = ______________________________________________________________
>=20 To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".
> =
> If you=20 want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL = administrative=20 announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the = list". ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_NextPart_000_0E3C_01C94B07.42BEE1F0-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:14:05 -0500 Reply-To: Barbara Bragg <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Barbara Bragg <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Research on the effect of Robotics experiences on student achievement Comments: To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> Comments: cc: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <014e01c948cb$a5949970$87798305@DGRSZZ81> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2636F26D7981CD46AF15B4BFEA53F8701D17BD4670exchangeCVCCV_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_2636F26D7981CD46AF15B4BFEA53F8701D17BD4670exchangeCVCCV_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check out the Carnegie Mellon University Robotics Academy website. Click on the icon in the lower right-hand co= rner to view a really good YouTube video. I received this "Powering Indust= ry, Rethinking Teaching" video a few weeks ago and loved it. So did our VP= !! Barbara Bragg Career Pathways Coordinator Workforce Development & Continuing Education Central Virginia Community College 3506 Wards Road Lynchburg, VA 24502 [log in to unmask] (434) 832-7672 (434) 832-7761 FAX "Grow Your Own" ________________________________ From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] O= n Behalf Of Jones, Laura R Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:06 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [VADCFLL-L] research on the effect of Robotics experiences on stud= ent achievement Does anyone know of research I can use to justify this program in my school= ? Thanks Laura Reasoner Jones, NBCT School-Based Technology Specialist McNair Elementary School Herndon, VA 703-793-4757 ______________________________________________________________ ____________= __________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE= YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-= l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL= -ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be d= istributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html a= nd select "Join or leave the list". _______________________________________= _______________________ ___________________________________________________= ___________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https:= //listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the li= st". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL ad= ministrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu= .edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". --_000_2636F26D7981CD46AF15B4BFEA53F8701D17BD4670exchangeCVCCV_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable research on the effect of Robotics experiences on student achievemen= t

Check out the Carnegie Mellon University Robotics Academy website. Click on the icon in = the lower right-hand corner to view a really good YouTube video. I receiv= ed this “Powering Industry, Rethinking Teaching” video a few weeks= ago and loved it. So did our VP!!

Barbara Bragg

Career Pathways Coordinator

W= orkforce Development & Continuing Education

Central Virginia Community College

3506 Wards Road

Lynchburg, VA 24502

[log in to unmask]

(434) 832-7672

(434) 832-7761 FAX

"Grow Your Own"

From: First Lego Le= ague Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jones= , Laura R
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] research on the effect of Robotics experiences = on student achievement

Does anyone know of research= I can use to justify this program in my school?

Thanks

Laura Reasoner = Jones, NBCT

School-Based Technology Spec= ialist

McNair Elementary School

Herndon, VA

703-793-4757

______________________________________________________= ________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRI= BE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or l= eave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to w= hich FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Joi= n or leave the list". _____________________________________________________= _________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRI= BE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or l= eave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to w= hich FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Joi= n or leave the list".

Hello All,

The Lynchburg Regional Tournament experienced challeng= es with the mats being completely flat the evening of and the morning of our L= EGO tournament. The weather conditions during set up and tournament day w= as humid with a lot of dampness. I would appreciate feedback regar= ding the conditions of field mats during your competition and ideas on how to ma= ke them completely flat. And yes, we did lay the mats down to flat= ten a couple of days prior to set-up. We also dual locked the mats to the tables.

Thanks for input,

Tish Farrow

Lynchburg LEGO Tournament Director

Tish Farrow

Grants Administrator for Workforce Development and Continuing Education

Central Virginia Community College

Lynchburg VA 24502-2498

434-832-7764

[log in to unmask]

<= /div>

Along those lines, I would like to encourage anyone who has an id= ea for VA/DC FLL to let us know. =C2=A0Please remember, though, that great = ideas are not enough...we need people to step up and make them happen. =C2= =A0As you know, VA/DC FLL is entirely volunteer run and while the volunteer= s we have are extremely dedicated, everyone - from our wonderful coaches to= the planning committee to the tournament organizers - is really busy and o= ur lists of "I wish we could" or "if only there were more people or hours i= n the day" are extensive. =C2=A0Do you have an idea or special skill that y= ou can bring to the table? =C2=A0We would love to hear about it and can alw= ays find ways to use the gifts that this community can share. =C2=A0They ca= n be big like the idea of a mentoring program, they can be small like creat= ing a VA/DC FLL cheer, or they can be anything in between. =C2=A0The sky is= the limit...we just need you!

As an FYI, we will = be sending out a survey for all coaches and parents within the next week to= get your feedback on what went well this season and what can be improved u= pon. =C2=A0Please be on the look out for the survey soon.

Thanks to all,

Brittany

---
Brittany Rose<= br>VA/DC FIRST LEGO League
www.vadcfll.org

----- Original Message= -----
From: "Michael Blanpied" <[log in to unmask]>
To: VADCFLL-L= @kookaburra1.JMU.EDU
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:33:20 PM GMT -0= 5:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Mentoring rookie coaches
=
Thoughts on the mentoring of rookie coaches...

Being a rookie co= ach is hard work. There is a lot to learn about FLL,
a lot of kid-manag= ement and kid-guidance to be done, the challenge of
a short season. Suc= cess at a regional tournament involves a lot of
planning and insight th= at may be elusive even for those who read the
coaching manual and read = the listserv, and it may not be apparent to
some rookie coaches that th= ere are books, guides, conference calls
and whatnot available to them.<= br>
This season (my third) I had the opportunity to provide some help an= d
mentoring to a school librarian coaching a young rookie team at a school in a nearby county. Although we never met in person, we
corresp= onded a number of times and talked on the phone a time or two,
which ga= ve her the opportunity to ask for guidance (from "where is
the regional= tournament?" to "what's really expected in the research
project?" to "= how can I know what the judges will ask?" to any number
of questions ab= out the intricate robot-match rules), and for me to
offer advice that s= he may not have even known she needs. Although
there were still a lot o= f aspects of the tournament that she found
eye-opening, I think it was = helpful.

I wonder if VADCFLL ought to consider formalizing such an a= rrangement
for all new coaches. The idea would be to pair up each new c= oach with
one (or maybe two) experienced coaches. This would be best do= ne right
at the start of the season, to make sure the rookie gets hooke= d up to
the relevant web sites, listserv and other resources, and gets = some
tips on how to organize the work, set realistic goals, create
= appropriate ground-rules, understand the role of the coach in FLL,
and = pace out the short season. Ideally the experienced coach (or
maybe his = or her whole team, if experienced) would meet with the
rookie group ear= ly in the season, but that would be above-and-beyond.
As tournament dat= e approaches, the mentor coach could provide
guidance on creating a sui= table presentation, interpreting the Q&A's,
and how to get the kids= , families and materials organized.

Thoughts?

--
Cheers,<= br>Mike Blanpied
Reston, VA
2006 #4809 Nano People
2007 #1666 Powe= r Bunnies
2008 #5013 BLT--Brilliant LEGO Team

___________________= ___________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOU= R SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html a= nd select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-= ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be di= stributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html an= d select "Join or leave the list".

Randy,

Go to this link https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and you can change to digest mode.

If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.

From: Randall Greene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:37:08 PM
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] mail settings

Is there a way to put this listserver in digest mode?

-- Randy
VA 1041 Eaglebots
http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=12424055&trk=tab_pro
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message.
We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been inconvenienced.

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

--0-2036819827-1227240231=:4785-- ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:04:16 -0800 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Barry Wilbanks <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Judge Volunteers Wanted!!! December 6th Comments: To: [log in to unmask] Comments: cc: Nick Swayne <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Great opportunity to be a Judge at the VA/DC FLL State Championship tournament. 80 teams are converging on Harrisonburg and they want to be judged. Robot Design, Presentation and Teamwork slots are open and waiting for you!!! Coaches - See how teams are evaluated from the other side of the table. Provides great insight on how your teams can improve their judging scores. Tournament Directors/Volunteers - See the best and brightest teams VA/DC has to offer. Rub elbows with other key volunteers from all over the state. Learn new tips and tricks on making your tournament that much better. Parents - See the culmination of 8 weeks of intense effort and be that much more impressed by your child's progress. How to volunteer: Send email to Nick Swayne at the email listed above ([log in to unmask]) Bonus: Free breakfast and lunch will be provided as well as a complimentary shirt. Any questions please let me know. Regards, Barry Wilbanks VA/DC FLL Tournament Director ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:35:58 -0500 Reply-To: "Carolyn A. Fortner-Burton" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: "Carolyn A. Fortner-Burton" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Mentoring rookie coaches Comments: To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was my rookie year and I was lucky enough to attend a weeklong camp at Benedictine H.S. in Richmond run by Adria Hogan this summer. All but one of our team members were able to attend and the kids and I learned how to program and approach problem solving. I don't know what I would have done without this experience. I also attended a morning workshop early last Spring at St. Michaels in Richmond that laid a good foundation for what the competition consists of and how coaches can prepare. More camps would certainly help new coaches. The biggest problem with camps is that they are usually during the day and if I wasn't unemployed this summer I'm not sure I could have taken off 5 consecutive mornings. Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of M Howe & T Le Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 4:17 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Mentoring rookie coaches As a rookie coach (one of four) for an elementary school that started two new teams this year (and we lived to tell the story!), Ginny's advice has been instrumental. She has been our "Virtual" mentor with lots of good advice and information. We made it to the tournament and had a great time. I will be attending the tournament in Harrisonburg with my son to get ideas for next year. I also intend to see the FRC tournament in March and (hopefully) go to the World Competition in Atlanta. I'll have to be honest and tell all new coaches that there is a steep learning curve, especially with big teams from young elementary schools. You will invest a lot of time and effort, but the payoff is very gratifying. You will learn a lot along the way. Seeing the kids (and adults) grow from the experience is the best part of it all. I would suggest getting a group of rookie (that's still us) and veteran coaches together during the summer months to discuss strategies for the next year. Aside from learning about the robots, there is so much to be learned about the FIRST Lego League, team management, mission strategies, season schedules and communication issues. We have also found that the environment (physical space) in which you have your team meetings determines the amount of focus and work accomplished. Lots of factors to consider! Thanks for a "growing" ecperience, Michele Howe Robo Eagles and Blue Dragons -----Original Message----- From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Ginny Echelberger Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:58 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Mentoring rookie coaches If anyone wants to recruit new coaches--NOW is the time. Invite them to go to the VADC FLL Championships in Harrisonburg on Sunday, Dec 7. Invite them to go to the FTC Tournament in Charlottesville on Saturday, Dec 6. Suggest they start reading the FLL website now and lend them your coach's manual to read. And invite them to the FRC Tournament in Richmond, the first weekend in March. Also, invite them to attend the World's in Atlanta in mid-April where they can see FLL, FTC and FRC. We met the greatest little FLL Team from China--their pit was across the aisle from the Virginia team and that's how we got introduced. If anyone goes to Atlanta--try to get there for the Opening Ceremony and stay for the Closing Ceremony. The speakers are fantastic and the crowd is amazing! Just be sure that wherever they go, they talk to the kids on the teams. Their enthusiasm is contagious. This way, potential new coaches can see all aspects of FIRST and the importance of FLL in the overall scheme of development for these kids. Then they'll be excited (although maybe still intimidated) about coaching a team. Experienced coaches and former coaches are great resources and can help several local teams at one time. We gave our county teachers and interested parents an introduction to FLL last spring in May and from that, we had at least five new teams that competed and several new teams that didn't compete this year. We also have kept a team going with a new coach, we had one school restart two teams and we have several people come to the Tournament to evaluate if they could start teams for next year. We still only have one area FTC team but we are hoping that our other high schools pick that up as well. Don't wait. Start now! There are great opportunities out there to help potential new coaches understand what FIRST has to offer. Just my 2 cents worth, Ginny Echelberger in Charlottesville/Albemarle ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:02:38 -0500 Reply-To: David Levy <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: David Levy <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Mentoring rookie coaches Comments: cc: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <000f01c94bde$1b0d7720$51286560$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I ran a few camps in the past two summers and it was truly a delight to see that several of my former students had found their way onto teams this season. I have to say though that the level of training offered in a week long camp is not a prerequisite for participation in the FLL. From what I have seen, the problems that rookie coaches face are due to difficulty in knowing where to start. I can't tell you how many parents that I've advised, had purchased a retail kit for their child but never bothered to install the software. Likewise there are many teachers who have installed the Edu Kit's. software for their school based club or in the classroom but never knew about the included tutorials. IMHO, all it takes is a few hours of an experienced coaches time to get the new coaches acclimated . The new coaches in turn have to ask more questions here on the VADCFLL-L email list. One thing that I did notice this season was a drop off of veteran teams. I'm thinking that this may be due to the difficulty in this year's robot game and the unwillingness for teams to register for tournaments - thinking that their scores were too low. How about those teams that stuck it out and registered for the regionals? Were you surprised that most teams scored lower than prior years? David Levy VA/DC FLL Education and Outreach Director 3rd Year Coach ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:19:49 -0500 Reply-To: "Lisa O. Crone" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: "Lisa O. Crone" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: why november and december for tournaments Comments: To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I have a question about the timing of our tournaments. Why do we have our tournaments during the busiest time of the year November and December? There must be a reason and I just don't know. It would seem to make more sense to have them later after we have had time to get situated in the school year and not during the holiday season. I was thinking March and April. Just Wondering, Fuqua Bot Boys Formerly X-treme Lego Bots Formerly Fuqua 4-H Robotics Lisa ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:34:56 -0500 Reply-To: Michael Blanpied <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Michael Blanpied <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: why november and december for tournaments Comments: To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Lisa, I'll be curious too. I assume that FLL regionals and state tournaments are in the fall to allow the international tournament to fall within the same school year, or to not conflict with Odyssey of the Mind and other such things in the spring, but that's just a guess. The timing does create a challenge for school teams. My first two years I coached an elementary school team. The school would send announcements about FLL in the introductory package, which families would receive around Labor Day. By the time forms were returned, teams formed, and a first meeting scheduled, we were into late September with only about 6-7 weeks left. I pleaded for the school to solicit interest and form teams in the spring, so that we could meet a bit over the summer to get to know each other and begin work on background skills (robot building, programming) and begin to explore the theme topic in a general way, but no dice. Perhaps a compromise would be to move the fall tournaments a couple of weeks later, and shift States to after the holiday, but who knows. Mike >Hello, > > I have a question about the timing of our tournaments. Why do >we have our tournaments during the busiest time of the year November >and December? There must be a reason and I just don't know. It >would seem to make more sense to have them later after we have had >time to get situated in the school year and not during the holiday >season. I was thinking March and April. > >Just Wondering, >Fuqua Bot Boys >Formerly X-treme Lego Bots >Formerly Fuqua 4-H Robotics > >Lisa > >______________________________________________________________ >To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit >https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >leave the list". > >If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL >administrative announcements will be distributed - visit >https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select >"Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:38:42 -0800 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Gwen Hall <[log in to unmask]> Subject: remove from email list Comments: To: David Levy <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-756009430-1227289122=:6774" --0-756009430-1227289122=:6774 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Please remove me from the email list --- On Fri, 11/21/08, David Levy <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: David Levy <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Mentoring rookie coaches To: [log in to unmask] Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 11:02 AM I ran a few camps in the past two summers and it was truly a delight to see that several of my former students had found their way onto teams this season. I have to say though that the level of training offered in a week long camp is not a prerequisite for participation in the FLL. From what I have seen, the problems that rookie coaches face are due to difficulty in knowing where to start. I can't tell you how many parents that I've advised, had purchased a retail kit for their child but never bothered to install the software. Likewise there are many teachers who have installed the Edu Kit's. software for their school based club or in the classroom but never knew about the included tutorials. IMHO, all it takes is a few hours of an experienced coaches time to get the new coaches acclimated . The new coaches in turn have to ask more questions here on the VADCFLL-L email list. One thing that I did notice this season was a drop off of veteran teams. I'm thinking that this may be due to the difficulty in this year's robot game and the unwillingness for teams to register for tournaments - thinking that their scores were too low. How about those teams that stuck it out and registered for the regionals? Were you surprised that most teams scored lower than prior years? David Levy VA/DC FLL Education and Outreach Director 3rd Year Coach ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". --0-756009430-1227289122=:6774 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Please remove me from the email list

--- On Fri, 11/21/08, David Levy <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: David Levy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Mentoring rookie coaches
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 11:02 AM

I ran a few camps in the past two summers and it was truly a delight to see that
several of my former students had found their way onto teams this season.  I
have to say though that the level of training offered in a week long camp is not
a prerequisite for participation in the FLL.

From what I have seen, the problems that rookie coaches face are due to
difficulty in  knowing where to start.   I can't tell you how many parents
that I've advised, had purchased a retail kit for their child but never
bothered to install the software.   Likewise there are many teachers who have
installed the Edu Kit's. software for their school based club or in the
classroom but never knew about the included tutorials.    IMHO, all it takes is
a few hours of an experienced coaches time to get the new coaches acclimated .  
The new coaches in turn have to ask more questions here on the VADCFLL-L email
list.

One thing that I did notice this season was a drop off of veteran teams. 
I'm thinking that this may be due to the difficulty in this year's robot
game and the unwillingness for teams to register for tournaments - thinking that
their scores were too low.   How about those teams that  stuck it out and
registered for the regionals?   Were you surprised that most teams scored lower
than prior years?

David Levy
VA/DC FLL Education and Outreach Director
3rd Year Coach






______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave
the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or
leave the list".

This year was definitely frustrating board wise. My team was must disheartened by the tasks but I kept reminding them that they are trying to make the boards harder so that no-one could get all the points in the time period which in turn makes you (the team) have to figure out what is worth going for and what do you avoid. I kept stressing to them to get the most that they can with their robot and not worry about what the point totals will be. Unfortunately, the inaccuracy of this type of robot made some of the missions - dare I say - "impossible?" or at least impossible to duplicate consistently and without destroying strategic pieces (either the one you were going for or some innocent bystanding piece!) In the end, I know my team learned the power of frustration and the reward of sticking with it through it all. This was my second year coaching and one thing I noticed very much from the team was much more eagerness to work on the project th! an to go work on that mission board! I let the kids have a break from the board but definitely encouraged them to never give up.

Juliann

Mindstormers

[log in to unmask]

-------------- Original message --------------
From: David Levy <[log in to unmask]>

> I ran a few camps in the past two summers and it was truly a delight to
> see that several of my former students had found their way onto teams
> this season. I have to say though that the level of training offered in
> a week long camp is not a prerequisite for participation in the FLL.
>
> From what I have seen, the problems that rookie coaches face are due to
> difficulty in knowing where to start. I can't tell you how many
> parents that I've advised, had purchased a retail kit for their child
> but never bothered to install the software. Likewise there are many
> teachers who have installed the Edu Kit's. software for their school
> based club or in the classroom but never knew about the included > tutorials. IMHO, all it takes is a few hours of an experienced
> coaches time to get the new coaches acclimated . The new coaches in
> turn have to ask more questions here on the VADCFLL-L email list.
>
> One thing that I did notice this season was a drop off of veteran
> teams. I'm thinking that this may be due to the difficulty in this
> year's robot game and the unwillingness for teams to register for
> tournaments - thinking that their scores were too low. How about those
> teams that stuck it out and registered for the regionals? Were you
> surprised that most teams scored lower than prior years?
>
> David Levy
> VA/DC FLL Education and Outreach Director
> 3rd Year Coach
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
> https://listserv.! jmu.e du/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the
> list".
>
> If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
> administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave
> the list".

Does a= nyone else have a problem motivating 2nd year teams? I have coached 2= completely different teams and both times the first year was very successf= ul and the second year the kids wanted to goof around most of the time.&nbs= p; I've talked to a few other coaches who noticed the same problem.

Any ideas for motivating "veteran" teams?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Juliann Eberheim" <allabou= [log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday,= November 21, 2008 12:50:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re:= [VADCFLL-L] Mentoring rookie coaches

This year was definitely frustrating board wise. My team was mus= t disheartened by the tasks but I kept reminding them that they are trying = to make the boards harder so that no-one could get all the points in the ti= me period which in turn makes you (the team) have to figure out what is wor= th going for and what do you avoid. I kept stressing to them to get t= he most that they can with their robot and not worry about what the point t= otals will be. Unfortunately, the inaccuracy of this type of robot ma= de some of the missions - dare I say - "impossible?" or at least impossible= to duplicate consistently and without destroying strategic pieces (either = the one you were going for or some innocent bystanding piece!) In the= end, I know my team learned the power of frustration and the reward of sti= cking with it through it all. This was my second year coaching and on= e thing I noticed very much from the team was much more eagerness to work o= n the project th! ! an to go work on that mission board! I let the ki= ds have a break from the board but definitely encouraged them to never give= up.

Juliann

Mindstormers

[log in to unmask]

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Dav= id Levy <[log in to unmask]>

> I ran a few camp= s in the past two summers and it was truly a delight to
> see that s= everal of my former students had found their way onto teams
> this s= eason. I have to say though that the level of training offered in
> = a week long camp is not a prerequisite for participation in the FLL.
&g= t;
> From what I have seen, the problems that rookie coaches face ar= e due to
> difficulty in knowing where to start. I can't tell you ho= w many
> parents that I've advised, had purchased a retail kit for t= heir child
> but never bothered to install the software. Likewise th= ere are many
> teachers who have installed the Edu Kit's. software f= or their school
> based club or in the classroom but never knew abou= t the included
> tutorials. IMHO, all it takes is a few hours of an = experienced
> coaches time to get the new coaches acclimated . The n= ew coaches in
> turn have to ask more questions here on the VADCFLL-= L email list.
>
> One thing that I did notice this season was= a drop off of veteran
> teams. I'm thinking that this may be due to= the difficulty in this
> year's robot game and the unwillingness fo= r teams to register for
> tournaments - thinking that their scores w= ere too low. How about those
> teams that stuck it out and registere= d for the regionals? Were you
> surprised that most teams scored low= er than prior years?
>
> David Levy
> VA/DC FLL Educat= ion and Outreach Director
> 3rd Year Coach
>
>
>= ;
>
>
>
> _____________________________________= _________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, = please visit
> https://listserv.! ! jmu.e du/archives/vadcfll-l.html= and select "Join or leave the
> list".
>
> If you wan= t to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
> administ= rative announcements will be distributed - visit
> https://listserv.= jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave
> th= e list".

_____________________________________________________= _________ ______________________________________________________________ To= UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu= .edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you wa= nt to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative a= nnouncements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/= vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

I can offer a = little history on this. Previously the tournaments were =

held in Blacksburg. Because of weather = we had to move the state

tournament to = January. That made it more difficult because you have

teams from all over = Virginia = going up into the mountains during the unpredictable winter = months.

It was scary being responsible for cars of students when the roads were =

still icy. = James Madison is a little bit of a better location as it is

not in as high an = elevation as Blacksburg, but the teams from the east

must still cross = Afton = Mountain, in the winter, to get there.

The other thing is = many of us have other activities that we do with

students that start = up in January ( TSA, OM, and in tidewater = we have

Great Computer = Challenge ).

Rusty West

Page Middle = School

Gloucester, VA

Pre-engineering

Project Lead The Way /

Gateway To Technology

FIRST Lego League

FIRST Tech Challenge

http://gets.gc.k12.va.us/= schools/page/

I would also imagine that you don’t want to strain = the resources that are heavily involved in running many of these tournaments = – that being the high school robotics teams. Their season starts in = the first week of January and goes heavy until March. It appears to me = that at least the Maggie Walker tournament would have been almost impossible = without their participation which would be difficult to get in the = spring.

&nbs= p; Joe Kaperick

&nbs= p; St. Edward-Epiphany School

&nbs= p; Richmond, VA

From:= First Lego = League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of = Rusty West
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 2:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] One reason we should not have tournaments = later

I can offer a little history on this. Previously the tournaments were

held in Blacksburg. Because of weather = we had to move the state

tournament to January. That made it = more difficult because you have

teams from all over Virginia going up into = the mountains during the unpredictable winter months.

It was scary being responsible for cars of = students when the roads were

still icy. James Madison is a little = bit of a better location as it is

not in as high an elevation as Blacksburg, = but the teams from the east

must still cross Afton Mountain, in the = winter, to get there.

The other thing is many of us have other = activities that we do with

students that start up in January ( TSA, OM, = and in tidewater we have

Great Computer Challenge = ).

Rusty West

Page Middle School

Gloucester, VA

Pre-engineering

Project Lead The Way /

Gateway To Technology

FIRST Lego League

FIRST Tech Challenge

http://gets.gc.k12.va.us/= schools/page/

_______________________________________________________= _______ ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join = or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - = to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select = "Join or leave the list".

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Michael Blanpied <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Lisa,

I'll be curious too. I assume that FLL regionals and state tournaments are in the fall to allow the international tournament to fall within the same school year, or to not conflict with Odyssey of the Mind and other such things in the spring, but that's just a guess.

The timing does create a challenge for school teams. My first two years I coached an elementary school team. The school would send announcements about FLL in the introductory package, which families would receive around Labor Day. By the time forms were returned, teams formed, and a first meeting scheduled, we were into late September with only about 6-7 weeks left. I pleaded for the school to solicit interest and form teams in the spring, so that we could meet a bit over the summer to get to know each other and begin work on background skills (robot building, programming) and begin to explore the theme topic in a general way, but no dice.

Perhaps a compromise would be to move the fall tournaments a couple of weeks later, and shift States to after the holiday, but who knows.

Mike

Hello,

I have a question about the timing of our tournaments. Why do we have our tournaments during the busiest time of the year November and December? There must be a reason and I just don't know. It would seem to make more sense to have them later after we have had time to get situated in the school year and not during the holiday season. I was thinking March and April.

Just Wondering,
Fuqua Bot Boys
Formerly X-treme Lego Bots
Formerly Fuqua 4-H Robotics

Lisa

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

Another thing to keep in mind is that the state tournament relies= VERY heavily on James Madison University students and professors. It= is very difficult to get as many volunteers as we need for the tournament&= nbsp;as it is. If the tournament were moved to January of February, you run= the risk of the students not being in session or the fact that it is = very hard to organize them that quickly at the start of the semester. = Trust me, I know this from experience. When the tournament was = in Blacksburg (we always held it at the start of December there as wel= l) I was the volunteer coordinator for three years and one year we had to m= ove the event to January/February because of weather. I had to almost= completely start over at the start of the semester because of this and had= less than 1 month to put everything together. The volunteer coordina= ting is normally done by an undergraduate student who also has classes, hom= ework, projects, hopefully some little bit of a life, etc. to contend with,= so to move it later becomes extra stressful!

On that note, just as Barry sent out yesterday, if anyone is intereste= d in volunteering, please contact Nick Swayne ([log in to unmask]).

Additionally, we have to go with the schedule that works well for the = university. We generally need to work around major events on campus a= nd in the area to ensure that there will be the resources on campus and the= hotel space off campus when we need it. This also limits the options= for weekends that we can use. The weekend before exams on campus (th= e week it is scheduled for) is generally the only one that is otherwise fre= e to events (this was true at Virginia Tech as well).

Karen

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] One = reason we should not have tournaments
later
From: "Kaperick, Joe" Kaperick@AFTONCHEMICAL.COM>= ;
Date: Fri, November 21, 2008 2:28 pm
To: [log in to unmask] EDU

I would also imagine that you don=E2= =80=99t want to strain the resources that are heavily involved in running m= any of these tournaments =E2=80=93 that being the high school robotics team= s. Their season starts in the first week of January and goes heavy un= til March. It appears to me that at least the Maggie Walker tournamen= t would have been almost impossible without their participation which would= be difficult to get in the spring.

      &= nbsp;         Joe Kaperick
      &= nbsp;         St. Edward-Epiphany S= chool

      &= nbsp;         Richmond, VA

Fr= om: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rusty = West
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 2:16 PM
To:VADCFLL= [log in to unmask]
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] One reason we should = not have tournaments later

&n= bsp;

I can off= er a little history on this. Previously the tournaments were <= /div>
held in B= lacksburg. Because of weather we had to move the state

tournamen= t to January. That made it more difficult because you have
teams fro= m all over Virginia going up into the mountains during the unpredictable wi= nter months.

It was sc= ary being responsible for cars of students when the roads were
still icy= . James Madison is a little bit of a better location as it is =

not in as= high an elevation as Blacksburg, but the teams from the east

must stil= l cross Afton Mountain, in the winter, to get there.

&n= bsp;

The other= thing is many of us have other activities that we do with

students = that start up in January ( TSA, OM, and in tidewater we have

Great Com= puter Challenge ).

Rusty West

Page Middle School

Gloucester, VA

Pre-engineering

Project Lead The Way /

Gateway To Technology

FIRST Lego League

FIRST Tech Challenge

http://ge= ts.gc.k12.va.us/schools/page/

______________________________________________________________ _______= _______________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or C= HANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html= and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-A= DMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be dis= tributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".
________________________= ______________________________________ ____________________________________= __________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, plea= se visit ht= tps://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leav= e the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to whic= h FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://lis= tserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave t= he list".

All coaches,

I know we haven’t even finished this season, but IR= 17;m already getting inquiries from parents looking for teams for next year.

Anyone in the Oakton, VA area looking for new team member?

Nick

Yes, please tell us more about underwater robotics! Sounds like something we'd love to come and see.

Sonya in Hbg

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Gail Drake <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

My personal opinion on the subject:

Many of us that support the FLL teams started in the FRC arena. I personally support several FLL teams and several FTC teams, as well as manage and mentor a FRC team. The FRC Season starts the first Saturday in January and has a 6 week build. We literally work 6 -7 days a week during this season and have no band-width for any other projects (FLL/FTC). The FTC Season starts the 2nd/3rd week of September and starts its state competitions in early December.

Having FLL in the fall allows many people to be involved in FLL along with FRC or FTC. I personally believe it would hurt the BIG picture if we could not be involved. (When I state 'we', for our team, I have 30 high school students that mentor elementary kids, and that would not happen).

I think there is a bigger picture than FLL stand alone. I for one, and pleased that we have a cycle that includes many level of robotics.

If you really want some fun; we do underwater robotics in April :)

Gail Drake
Battlefield High School
Information Technology and Programming Faculty
Robotics Coach, FRC Team 1885, FTC, SEAPerch
WebMaster

(571) 261-4726
[log in to unmask]

SEAPerchPWCS.org
BattlefieldIT.org
BattlefieldRobotics.org

>>> Stuart & Lori Roll <[log in to unmask]> 11/21/2008 3:14 PM >>>
Michael -

I agree. In our area, the challenge is generally released the first week of
school each year when too many other flyers are being sent home. This past
year, I finally got the reigns of our Elementary School program and did
spring registration for a change. The odd thing is I don't know if it
gained us much extra time, if any. It's hard for some people to commit to
something several months in advance when they don't have a handle on how bad
sports practices and such will be. It's virtually impossible to get kids
together over the summer as their vacations and camps all overlap. Also,
everyone is very distracted in the first week or two of school.

Our Middle School program has it harder, though. Along with all the
aforementioned challenges, the rising 6th graders are coming from several
feeder schools, only one of which even has an FLL program. The first
quarter of 6th grade is pretty challenging for most kids and they are
worried about overcommiting. We still somehow ended up with a bumper crop
of 6th grade recruits this year.

So it seems no matter how hard I try, we still end up with a 6-8 week FLL
season. Other school systems (VA and elsewhere) that start in late August
or use a year-round schedule have a small advantage on us, I would think.

But to balance that out, the 80-20 rule applies in FLL as it does in life in
general - 80% of the work gets done in the last 20% of the time. I'd bet
that most teams meander through the first couple of weeks and then knuckle
down at the end so an extra week or two up front wouldn't make that much
difference. We have been living (and in some cases thriving) with this issue
for years, so maybe it isn't such a big hairy deal.

Unfortunately, moving the fall tournaments a couple of weeks later would
force them to post-Thanksgiving and you'd have to move states into January.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing, mind you, just different.

The schedule may have very limited flexibility. The challenge has to be
released all at once worldwide and I have no clue how schools work in the
other countries. My best guess is that our regional tournament dates were
simply picked as the latest dates that didn't hit Thanksgiving.

Stuart

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Blanpied" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] why november and december for tournaments

> Lisa,
>
> I'll be curious too. I assume that FLL regionals and state tournaments are
> in the fall to allow the international tournament to fall within the same
> school year, or to not conflict with Odyssey of the Mind and other such
> things in the spring, but that's just a guess.
>
> The timing does create a challenge for school teams. My first two years I
> coached an elementary school team. The school would send announcements
> about FLL in the introductory package, which families would receive around
> Labor Day. By the time forms were returned, teams formed, and a first
> meeting scheduled, we were into late September with only about 6-7 weeks
> left. I pleaded for the school to solicit interest and form teams in the
> spring, so that we could meet a bit over the summer to get to know each
> other and begin work on background skills (robot building, programming)
> and begin to explore the theme topic in a general way, but no dice.
>
> Perhaps a compromise would be to move the fall tournaments a couple of
> weeks later, and shift States to after the holiday, but who knows.
>
> Mike
>
>>Hello,
>>
>> I have a question about the timing of our tournaments. Why do we
>> have our tournaments during the busiest time of the year November and
>> December? There must be a reason and I just don't know. It would seem
>> to make more sense to have them later after we have had time to get
>> situated in the school year and not during the holiday season. I was
>> thinking March and April.
>>
>>Just Wondering,
>>Fuqua Bot Boys
>>Formerly X-treme Lego Bots
>>Formerly Fuqua 4-H Robotics
>>
>>Lisa
>>
>>______________________________________________________________
>>To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
>>https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave
>>the list".
>>
>>If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
>>administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
>>https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or
>>leave the list".
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave
> the list".
>
> If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
> administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or
> leave the list".
>

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

We have two middle school teams, boys and = girls.

We tried having “tryouts” in the fall at = the beginning of the school year. We had over 40 boys tryout for that = team and 15 girls tryout for their team. Tryouts seemed to go on for = weeks as we used some team building experiences and teacher = recommendations. However, it turned out that the sixth grade teachers could not do = accurate recommendation because they had only known the students a week or so at that = point. The seventh and eighth grade students could go back to their previous years teachers here to get recommendations.

Our solution has been that we start with tryouts each May. This means only the 6^th and 7^th = graders, at that time, can tryout. We use the team building events and teacher recommendations. Then the team begins practice the first week of = school, ready to go. We don’t have any sixth graders and that seems = to work as they have their hands full getting adjusted to middle school in = September.

Each year we start with a clean slate. If a = student made the team the previous year, there is no guarantee they will make = the team the following year. It seems we always have 8 really good = candidates and I end up keeping 7 or 8. I really think when I have a team that = has a few kids with experience it is better to have a smaller team so they have to = work harder. It seems to help with the kids getting bored if they are = almost over worked. Two years is about the most you can get out kids for = FLL. The third year they are way too cocky that they have “been there, = done that” and that attitude is not good for the = team.

Rusty West

Page Middle = School

Gloucester, VA

Pre-engineering

Project Lead The Way /

Gateway To Technology

FIRST Lego League

FIRST Tech Challenge

http://gets.gc.k12.va.us/= schools/page/

I agree with you to a point. You = have it=20 right that this board was harder than the last couple and that it = forces=20 you to make harder choices this year. After observing two = regionals and=20 thinking about them, I think that this year's game really shows a = stratification=20 of the teams. In previous years there were a whole lot more teams = clumped=20 in the middle of the scores but this year there is a big group with = scores in=20 the low 100's or less, a much smaller group in the 200's and a few = elite=20 teams above 300 points.

The fact that there are teams scoring = over 300=20 means that "impossible" is too strong a word.

The unasked question seems to be = "Shouldn't the=20 game be easier for the weaker teams so they won't get = discouraged?". That=20 may be a valid question to ask after the season is over and I'd be = curious to=20 see people's thoughts on the matter. I think the biggest = problem was=20 people's expectations. They thought they could score points as = easily as=20 last year and got frustrated when they couldn't

Personally, I thought that last year's = game was=20 very clever in how it related to the topic (e.g., you have to "spend" a = barrel=20 of oil to get energy from corn). This year's game had some = individually=20 challenging missions but the biggest trick was not "how could you do = this" but=20 "how in the world can you do this in 2 1/2 minutes?" I also = thought that=20 the rules were better and tighter this year than in years past - I = applaud=20 the designers for changing them.

Obviously there are a few teams that = rose to the=20 challenge this year. I am really curious to see the = inevitable=20 "400" teams that will be posting on youtube after the season's=20 over!

Stuart

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Juliann Eberheim

To: [log in to unmask] = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask] DU=20

Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 = 12:50=20 PM

Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] = Mentoring rookie=20 coaches

This year was definitely frustrating board wise. My team = was must=20 disheartened by the tasks but I kept reminding them that they are = trying to=20 make the boards harder so that no-one could get all the points in the = time=20 period which in turn makes you (the team) have to figure out what is = worth=20 going for and what do you avoid. I kept stressing to them to get = the=20 most that they can with their robot and not worry about what the point = totals=20 will be. Unfortunately, the inaccuracy of this type of robot = made some=20 of the missions - dare I say - "impossible?" or at least impossible to = duplicate consistently and without destroying strategic pieces (either = the one=20 you were going for or some innocent bystanding piece!) In the = end, I=20 know my team learned the power of frustration and the reward of = sticking with=20 it through it all. This was my second year coaching and one = thing I=20 noticed very much from the team was much more eagerness to work on the = project=20 th! ! an to go work on that mission board! I let the kids have a = break=20 from the board but definitely encouraged them to never give up.

Juliann

Mindstormers

[log in to unmask]

--------------=20 Original message --------------
From: David Levy=20 <[log in to unmask]>

> I ran a few camps = in the=20 past two summers and it was truly a delight to
> see that = several of=20 my former students had found their way onto teams
> this = season. I=20 have to say though that the level of training offered in
> a = week=20 long camp is not a prerequisite for participation in the FLL. =
>=20
> From what I have seen, the problems that rookie coaches = face are=20 due to
> difficulty in knowing where to start. I can't tell = you how=20 many
> parents that I've advised, had purchased a retail kit = for=20 their child
> but never bothered to install the software. = Likewise=20 there are many
> teachers who have installed the Edu Kit's. = software=20 for their school
> based club or in the classroom but never = knew=20 about the included > tutorials. IMHO, all it takes is a = few hours=20 of an experienced
> coaches time to get the new coaches = acclimated .=20 The new coaches in
> turn have to ask more questions here on = the=20 VADCFLL-L email list.
>
> One thing that I did notice = this=20 season was a drop off of veteran
> teams. I'm thinking that = this may=20 be due to the difficulty in this
> year's robot game and the=20 unwillingness for teams to register for
> tournaments - = thinking that=20 their scores were too low. How about those
> teams that stuck = it out=20 and registered for the regionals? Were you
> surprised that = most=20 teams scored lower than prior years?
>
> David Levy =
>=20 VA/DC FLL Education and Outreach Director
> 3rd Year Coach =
>=20
>
>
>
>
>
>=20 ______________________________________________________________ =
> To=20 UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
>=20 https://listserv.! ! jmu.e du/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select = "Join or=20 leave the
> list".
>
> If you want to join the=20 VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
> administrative=20 announcements will be distributed - visit
>=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select = "Join or=20 leave
> the list".=20 = ____________________________________________________________= __=20 ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE=20 or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or = leave the=20 list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which = FLL=20 administrative announcements will be distributed - visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select = "Join or=20 leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_NextPart_000_08CD_01C94C04.7EC01EF0-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:58:31 -0500 Reply-To: KevinHines <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: KevinHines <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Mentoring rookie coaches Comments: To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_045A_01C94C24.4ACECBD0" ------=_NextPart_000_045A_01C94C24.4ACECBD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom, How do YOU define being "successful" for your FLL team? We start each FLL season by clearly defining our FLL team's goals, and shari= ng these goals with all of the children and with their parents... our teams=20= have only two goals each year: 1. the Kids Learn; and=20 2. the Kids Enjoy Learning. (Please note that "winning' is never on our list of goals, and winning is NE= VER needed for us to be "successful".) And we have only three, very simple rules of behavior: 1. Respect Yourself;=20 2. Respect Other People; and=20 3. Respect Property. We have been "successful" every one of my four years coaching FLL. :-) Good Luck! Kevin PS - If by "successful" you mean focused... my FLL teams have become more fo= cused (and thus more successful) each year, as my co-coaches and I have lear= ned to create more structure, and to more clearly defined goals and rules of= behavior each year. Kevin Hines FLL Coach [log in to unmask] www.RoanokeRobotics.org -----Original Message----- From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On=20= Behalf Of Tom Chiffrilller Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:42 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Mentoring rookie coaches Does anyone else have a problem motivating 2nd year teams? I have coached 2= completely different teams and both times the first year was very successfu= l and the second year the kids wanted to goof around most of the time. I've= talked to a few other coaches who noticed the same problem. Any ideas for motivating "veteran" teams? =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juliann Eberheim" <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:50:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Mentoring rookie coaches This year was definitely frustrating board wise. My team was must dishearte= ned by the tasks but I kept reminding them that they are trying to make the=20= boards harder so that no-one could get all the points in the time period whi= ch in turn makes you (the team) have to figure out what is worth going for a= nd what do you avoid. I kept stressing to them to get the most that they ca= n with their robot and not worry about what the point totals will be. Unfor= tunately, the inaccuracy of this type of robot made some of the missions - d= are I say - "impossible?" or at least impossible to duplicate consistently a= nd without destroying strategic pieces (either the one you were going for or= some innocent bystanding piece!) In the end, I know my team learned the po= wer of frustration and the reward of sticking with it through it all. This=20= was my second year coaching and one thing I noticed very much from the team=20= was much more eagerness to work on the project th! ! an to go work on that m= ission board! I let the kids have a break from the board but definitely enc= ouraged them to never give up. Juliann Mindstormers [log in to unmask] -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: David Levy <[log in to unmask]>=20 > I ran a few camps in the past two summers and it was truly a delight to=20 > see that several of my former students had found their way onto teams=20 > this season. I have to say though that the level of training offered in=20 > a week long camp is not a prerequisite for participation in the FLL.=20 >=20 > From what I have seen, the problems that rookie coaches face are due to=20 > difficulty in knowing where to start. I can't tell you how many=20 > parents that I've advised, had purchased a retail kit for their child=20 > but never bothered to install the software. Likewise there are many=20 > teachers who have installed the Edu Kit's. software for their school=20 > based club or in the classroom but never knew about the included=20 > tutorials. IMHO, all it takes is a few hours of an experienced=20 > coaches time to get the new coaches acclimated . The new coaches in=20 > turn have to ask more questions here on the VADCFLL-L email list.=20 >=20 > One thing that I did notice this season was a drop off of veteran=20 > teams. I'm thinking that this may be due to the difficulty in this=20 > year's robot game and the unwillingness for teams to register for=20 > tournaments - thinking that their scores were too low. How about those=20 > teams that stuck it out and registered for the regionals? Were you=20 > surprised that most teams scored lower than prior years?=20 >=20 > David Levy=20 > VA/DC FLL Education and Outreach Director=20 > 3rd Year Coach=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ______________________________________________________________=20 > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit=20 > https://listserv.! ! jmu.e du/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join o= r leave the=20 > list".=20 >=20 > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL=20 > administrative announcements will be distributed - visit=20 > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join=20= or leave=20 > the list".=20 ______________________________________________________________ _____________= _________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE Y= OUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.h= tml and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADM= IN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distri= buted - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and sel= ect "Join or leave the list".=20 ______________________________________________________________ _____________= _________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE Y= OUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.h= tml and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADM= IN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distri= buted - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and sel= ect "Join or leave the list".=20 ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_NextPart_000_045A_01C94C24.4ACECBD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tom,

<= /FONT>

How do YOU= define=20 being "successful" for your FLL team?

<= /FONT>

We st= art each=20 FLL season by clearly defining our FLL team's goals, and sharing these=20 goals with all of the children and with their parents... our teams have only= two=20 goals each year:

1. th= e Kids=20 Learn; and

2. th= e Kids=20 Enjoy Learning.

<= /FONT>

(Please no= te that=20 "winning' is never on our list of goals, and winning is NEVER need= ed=20 for us to be "successful".)

<= /FONT>

And we hav= e only=20 three, very simple rules of behavior:

1. Respect= Yourself;=20

2. Respect= Other=20 People; and

3. Respect= =20 Property.

<= /FONT>

We have been "successful" every one of my=20 four years coaching FLL. :-)

<= /FONT>

Good= =20 Luck!
Kevin

PS -= If by=20 "successful" you mean focused... my FLL teams have become more focused=20= (and=20 thus more successful) each year, as my co-coaches and I have learned to= =20 create more structure, and to more clearly defined goals and rules of behavi= or=20 each year.

Kevin Hines
FLL Coach

Kev= [log in to unmask]
www.RoanokeRobotics.org

<= BR>

-----Original Message-----
From: First Lego League Dis= cussion=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Tom=20 Chiffrilller
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:42 PM
To:= =20 [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Mentoring=20 rookie coaches

Does anyone else have a problem motivating 2nd year teams? I have=20 coached 2 completely different teams and both times the first year was very=20 successful and the seco= nd=20 year the kids wanted to goof around most of the time. I've talked to a= few=20 other coaches who noticed the same problem.

Any ideas for motivating "veteran" teams?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Juliann Eberheim"=20 <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sen= t:=20 Friday, November 21, 2008 12:50:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subjec= t:=20 Re: [VADCFLL-L] Mentoring rookie coaches

This year was definitely frustrating board wise. My team was must= =20 disheartened by the tasks but I kept reminding them that they are trying to=20= make=20 the boards harder so that no-one could get all the points in the time period= =20 which in turn makes you (the team) have to figure out what is worth going fo= r=20 and what do you avoid. I kept stressing to them to get the most that t= hey=20 can with their robot and not worry about what the point totals will be. = ;=20 Unfortunately, the inaccuracy of this type of robot made some of the mission= s -=20 dare I say - "impossible?" or at least impossible to duplicate consistently=20= and=20 without destroying strategic pieces (either the one you were going for or so= me=20 innocent bystanding piece!) In the end, I know my team learned the pow= er=20 of frustration and the reward of sticking with it through it all. This= was=20 my second year coaching and one thing I noticed very much from the team was=20= much=20 more eagerness to work on the project th! ! an to go work on that mission=20 board! I let the kids have a break from the board but definitely=20 encouraged them to never give up.

Juliann

Mindstormers

[log in to unmask]

--------------=20 Original message --------------
From: David Levy=20 <[log in to unmask]>

> I ran a few camps in th= e=20 past two summers and it was truly a delight to
> see that several o= f my=20 former students had found their way onto teams
> this season. I hav= e to=20 say though that the level of training offered in
> a week long camp= is=20 not a prerequisite for participation in the FLL.
>
> From wh= at I=20 have seen, the problems that rookie coaches face are due to
>=20 difficulty in knowing where to start. I can't tell you how many
>=20 parents that I've advised, had purchased a retail kit for their child
= >=20 but never bothered to install the software. Likewise there are many
&g= t;=20 teachers who have installed the Edu Kit's. software for their school
&= gt;=20 based club or in the classroom but never knew about the included
>=20 tutorials. IMHO, all it takes is a few hours of an experienced
>=20 coaches time to get the new coaches acclimated . The new coaches in
&g= t;=20 turn have to ask more questions here on the VADCFLL-L email list.
>= =20
> One thing that I did notice this season was a drop off of veteran= =20
> teams. I'm thinking that this may be due to the difficulty in thi= s=20
> year's robot game and the unwillingness for teams to register for= =20
> tournaments - thinking that their scores were too low. How about=20 those
> teams that stuck it out and registered for the regionals? W= ere=20 you
> surprised that most teams scored lower than prior years?
= >=20
> David Levy
> VA/DC FLL Education and Outreach Director=20
> 3rd Year Coach
>
>
>
>
>
&= gt;=20
> ______________________________________________________________=20
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
>=20 https://listserv.! ! jmu.e du/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or=20 leave the
> list".
>
> If you want to join the=20 VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
> administrative=20 announcements will be distributed - visit
>=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or= =20 leave
> the list".=20

______________________________________________________________=20 ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIB= E or=20 CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave t= he=20 list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL=20 administrative announcements will be distributed - visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or l= eave=20 the list".

___________________________________________________________= ___=20 ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIB= E or=20 CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave t= he=20 list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL=20 administrative announcements will be distributed - visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or l= eave=20 the list". ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_NextPart_000_045A_01C94C24.4ACECBD0-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:18:28 -0500 Reply-To: Michael Blanpied <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Michael Blanpied <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Mentoring rookie coaches Comments: To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <404DC5D9C1A64689BE6DDC2C52193BCE@Dell4550> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 6:10 PM -0500 11/21/08, Stuart & Lori Roll wrote: >The unasked question seems to be "Shouldn't the game be easier for >the weaker teams so they won't get discouraged?". That may be a >valid question to ask after the season is over and I'd be curious to >see people's thoughts on the matter. I think the biggest >problem was people's expectations. They thought they could score >points as easily as last year and got frustrated when they couldn't. Stuart, True, last year's board had a lot of simple push-and-return type of missions. But this year too, I thought that there were enough pretty-darn-easy missions that discouragement would be avoided. Looking at the board, I figured that most teams would be able to get one ball in the reservoir, trigger the storm, leave three (or two if unlucky) levees standing, and push a blue/gray guy to the mountain, for 45 points. Flip up the flood barrier to make it 60, and drive into the yellow grid area to make it 70. So I was surprised at the end of the day to see a lot of points in the 20's and 30's, but didn't have the chance to see those runs so am not sure what was attempted. I second your kudos to Scott and whoever else designed the board and the rules. Last year the Q&A blog had many more entries, and this year a very modest number of clarifications were needed. Very well done. Mike ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:03:13 +0000 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Brittany Rose <[log in to unmask]> Subject: INFO re: new email list and conflict between testing for TJHSST and championship tournament Comments: To: VA/DC FLL discussion list <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_63564_1120937075.1227358993299" ------=_Part_63564_1120937075.1227358993299 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good morning VA/DC FLL,=20 Per an email earlier in the week, all communications regarding the champion= ship tournament next month at JMU will now be sent to a championship discus= sion list. =C2=A0All registered coaches and team managers of teams advancin= g to the championship have already been added to this new list. =C2=A0If yo= u did not receive the message below already, then you are not on the champi= onship list. =C2=A0All parents, coaches, volunteers, and anyone else intere= sted in championship updates is welcome to join. =C2=A0To subscribe,=C2=A0 = please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-championship-l.html = and select "Join or leave the list".=20 Please see the note below if your child or any team members are planning to= take the TJHSST admissions test on December 6th.=20 Thanks,=20 Brittany=20 ---=20 Brittany Rose=20 VA/DC FIRST LEGO League=20 www.vadcfll.org=20 ----- Forwarded Message -----=20 From: "Brittany Rose" <[log in to unmask]>=20 To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:30:07 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern= =20 Subject: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] INFO re: conflict between testing for TJH= SST and championship tournament=20 Good morning VA/DC FLL championship teams,=20 I have been in contact with a number of teams regarding the conflict that s= ome or all of their team members have between the championship tournament a= nd admissions testing for TJHSST. =C2=A0I am pleased to say that a work aro= und has been devised in conjunction with TJ and I have sent details about t= hat to any coach or parent who previously notified me of a conflict. =C2=A0= If any of your team members have a conflict and you have not yet sent me no= tification, or you sent me notification but I missed your message and didn'= t send an update this morning, please contact me off the list as soon as po= ssible.=20 Thanks,=20 Brittany=20 ---=20 Brittany Rose=20 VA/DC FIRST LEGO League=20 www.vadcfll.org=20 To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.e= du/archives/vadcfll-championship-l.html and select "Join or leave the list"= . If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL admin= istrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.ed= u/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_Part_63564_1120937075.1227358993299 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>

Good morning= VA/DC FLL,

Per an email earlier in the week, all = communications regarding the championship tournament next month at JMU will= now be sent to a championship discussion list. =C2=A0All registered coache= s and team managers of teams advancing to the championship have already bee= n added to this new list. =C2=A0If you did not receive the message below al= ready, then you are not on the championship list. =C2=A0All parents, coache= s, volunteers, and anyone else interested in championship updates is welcom= e to join. =C2=A0To subscribe,=C2=A0please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/a= rchives/vadcfll-championship-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

Please see the note below if your child or any team = members are planning to take the TJHSST admissions test on December 6th.

Thanks,

Brittany

---
Brittany = Rose
VA/DC FIRST LEGO League
www.vadcfll.org

----- Forwarded M= essage -----
From: "Brittany Rose" <[log in to unmask]>
To: VADCFLL= [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:= 30:07 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [VADCFLL-CHAMPIONSHIP-L] = INFO re: conflict between testing for TJHSST and championship tournament

Goo= d morning VA/DC FLL championship teams,

I have been in c= ontact with a number of teams regarding the conflict that some or all of th= eir team members have between the championship tournament and admissions te= sting for TJHSST. =C2=A0I am pleased to say that a work around has been dev= ised in conjunction with TJ and I have sent details about that to any coach= or parent who previously notified me of a conflict. =C2=A0If any of your t= eam members have a conflict and you have not yet sent me notification, or y= ou sent me notification but I missed your message and didn't send an update= this morning, please contact me off the list as soon as possible.

Thanks,

Brittany

---
Brittany Ros= e
VA/DC FIRST LEGO League
www.vadcfll.org

To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.e= du/archives/vadcfll-championship-l.html and select "Join or leave the list"= . If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL adminis= trative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/= archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

My 2=A2 on the emphasis on scores . . = .

FLL is intended to be an engineering sport.=A0 What would soccer = be if we didn't focus on the scores?

FLL is certainly not all about = the scores.=A0 I tell my team(s) each year that regardless of the outcome, = we've had a great time and learned a lot.=A0 Before the awards are done I ask them = - was it fun?=A0 Was it worth it if you come away with nothing?=A0 They say = yes.=A0 They did come away with nothing this year.=A0 That was hard after taking first = place in robot design last year and being first alternate to go to States.=A0 = They really, really wanted to go on this year.=A0 There were tears of disappointment, = but as we munched pizza and went over the judges' comments later that evening = they were planning out their strategy for next year.=A0 =

It's not all about the scores for = them, although scores and trophies are huge motivators.=A0 The teamwork and = excitement are what fires them up.=A0 They spend time on trade-ables and = t-shirts.=A0 They are more proud of their community sharing each year than their table = runs.=A0 Still, at tournament, they race out to see what their standing is on the table = runs - its part of the excitement.=A0 I think the teamwork is what they are = there for and the scoring is what pushes them to do their best.=A0 Table runs are = visible scoring - like the scoreboard at a sports event.=A0 If I could figure = out a way that it was possible to show the visible scoring for the other 3/4, I'd = suggest it.=A0 But I can't figure it out.=A0 I do personally like the visible = scoring of table runs.=A0 It is a competition, after = all.

Personally I believe that it is = up to the coaches and the parents to remember the teamwork piece of the whole experience.=A0 Value your teamwork, your sharing, your working = together.=A0 But they honestly do put more heart into the project because it is = scored.=A0 Part of teamwork is how you handle challenges also.=A0 =

I tell my kids over and over that = they ARE the future.=A0 They do not need to choose a career in engineering, they = do not have an obligation to change the world as we know it, but they certainly = could.=A0 They do not have to take home a trophy from FLL to have learned a lot = and moved along their path towards what they will become.=A0 This experience is = amazing on so many levels.=A0 I hope that my kids are as proud of themselves as I = am of them.=A0 Most of the team just finished their third competition = together, replacing one or two members each year as kids drop out.=A0 The worked = together so well this year.=A0 They support each other, trust each other, enjoy = each other.=A0 They struggled, got frustrated, wanted badly to go on to = states.=A0 They jumped around in joy when their article is published in the local paper, = were proud as peacocks when they appear on the school TV show, and screamed with = excitement when a mission works.=A0 They are a team!

Nancy Egan Sharma, = Coach

2008 – Super Panda = Galaxy

2007 – Solar = Pandas

2006 – Nano = Pandas

______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C94C8E.811FC620-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:12:40 -0500 Reply-To: Annette Holloway <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Annette Holloway <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Tournament Scoring Comments: To: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just some thoughts about the emphasis on scores - I think it would be nice to have rankings displayed briefly at the end of the tournament for every judging category, and possibly have awards for the second & third place as well. That way the Lego table does not appear to be the most important thing. Our team did incredibly well on their project, did not win an award, but it would have been very encouraging to know if they were second. That additional feedback would be helpful for upcoming years. Annette Holloway NASA Ninjas Hampton, Va ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:39:51 -0500 Reply-To: Debbie Brumback <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Debbie Brumback <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Have Fun! and Let's see the other 75% of FLL at regionals Comments: To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding the focus on robot scores.... As a parent that just stopped by the regional event for a couple of hours, the only measure of how things are going at the competition is the posted score board and the public robot runs. Our regional competition has video monitors aimed at all four robot fields that are on display all day long, during the actual runs. In the hallway, the Division 1 and Division 2 robot scores are displayed in running order of high to low scores. Is it possible to have video monitors also recording project presentations, robot design judging, and (the previous year's) team building challenges? Displaying these events on monitors beside the robot scores, would pull people away from robot scores and offer an opportunity to share the other 75% of the FLL experience. If that's not feasible, another possibility would be to ask teams to bring in a home video of their project presentation and a short robot presentation that could be put on display during the competition. I appreciate all the volunteers that give time to FLL, regardless of whether the Henrico Public Schools find this time worthy of official community service hours or not. When I'm no longer hosting lego meetings and living with a FLL obsessed team member and a coach, I plan to give some time back to FLL myself. Debbie Brumback ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:17:55 -0500 Reply-To: KevinHines <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: KevinHines <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tournament Scoring Comments: To: Annette Holloway <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Annette, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on posting FLL scores. The posting of scores is a topic which seems to come up each year, and there are many good opinions. Some coaches feel *all* scores should be posted, some coaches feel *no* scores should be posted, and many coaches feel somewhere in between. I'd like to reply to your thoughtful suggestion in a few parts: 1. FIRST Philosophy about Awards: I am a FLL Coach (in my 4th year), and I have also volunteered as a judge at FVC (the precursor to FTC) events (at tournaments in Florida)... the FIRST philosophy, as I understand it, is to give the awards for the judged categories to as many different teams as possible. Thus, one team will not receive two awards for two judged categories, (i.e., Presentation, Robot Design & Teamwork). This is intended to motivate as many kids excited as possible to enjoy the experience, and to have as many teams as possible feel good about their work. The exception to this rule is the Robot Performance awards, since the Robot Performance scores are posted publicly, so even if a team wins an award for a judged category, they can also win an award for Robot Performance. When I judged, there were a few teams which could easily have taken 1st or 2nd place in almost every category, but that would not make the other teams feel good, so FIRST has things set up so that the judges deliberate, and select no more than one (judged) award per team. If the judging sessions' scores were posted at all, then at some tournaments, a few teams would dominate, and get most of the awards. Thus, the judging scores are kept private, so that the awards, for the judged categories, can be distributed to as many teams as possible. Whether one agrees with this approach or not, this is the FIRST philosophy, as I understand it. (Personally, I like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as possible.) 2. Judged Events: These aren't really a regular sporting game, like soccer or baseball. The opinions of the judges enter into the judged scores, and there's no way around that. In this sense, the judged events are more like figure skating or gymnastics scores. Some people feel that a judged event is or is not really a sporting event like a game ... thus, posting judged scores is an area of contention. Again, I do like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as possible, and keeping the judged scores *not* posted, is one way to accomplish this. 3. FLL Policy Decisions Come From the Top: FLL is not a democracy, and that's okay with me (most of the time). I'm in my 4th year of coaching FLL, and one thing I've learned about FLL, is that the important policy decisions about things like what the public is allowed to see (for example: judged sessions & judged scores), are all decided at the top of the leadership structure. If you can convince the state leadership, you may have a chance of implementing a change. Perhaps the state leadership might change something if enough coaches requested it, but I have found that the volunteers who run the state organizations are passionate folks who are doing work which they feel strongly about, and they really are doing what they believe is right for the children. And that seems to include *not* posting the judged scores. I respect the amazing dedication, leadership and passion for helping the children, which our state organizers display regularly. However, I can't recall even one time that they changed a significant policy decision, due to input from coaches (I will apologize if I'm wrong about this). I am impressed that the state organizers can find enough common ground, among all of us, to keep FLL going. They are doing an awesome job, and they have my appreciation. I wish you luck in your effort to make FLL even better. Thanks, Kevin Kevin Hines FLL Coach [log in to unmask] www.RoanokeRobotics.org -----Original Message----- From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Annette Holloway Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:13 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring Just some thoughts about the emphasis on scores - I think it would be nice to have rankings displayed briefly at the end of the tournament for every judging category, and possibly have awards for the second & third place as well. That way the Lego table does not appear to be the most important thing. Our team did incredibly well on their project, did not win an award, but it would have been very encouraging to know if they were second. That additional feedback would be helpful for upcoming years. Annette Holloway NASA Ninjas Hampton, Va ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:43:44 -0500 Reply-To: Cynthia <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Cynthia <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tournament Scoring Comments: To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd just like to second what Kevin said about the judging scores. While attempts have been made to make judging objective by implementing rubrics and numerical scores, presentation, teamwork, and robot design remain subjectively scored. It's all about impressing the judges enough that your team stands out in our minds at the end of the day. The scores help us weed out the very best teams, but many times, several teams end up with identical scores, and they all deserve the award. When it comes down to it, what matters much more is giving awards to as many deserving teams as possible. Hope this and Kevin's response help to clarify FIRST's side of things. Cynthia Judge ----- Original Message ----- From: "KevinHines" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring > Annette, > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts on posting FLL scores. > > The posting of scores is a topic which seems to come up each year, and > there > are many good opinions. Some coaches feel *all* scores should be posted, > some coaches feel *no* scores should be posted, and many coaches feel > somewhere in between. > > I'd like to reply to your thoughtful suggestion in a few parts: > > > 1. FIRST Philosophy about Awards: I am a FLL Coach (in my 4th year), and I > have also volunteered as a judge at FVC (the precursor to FTC) events (at > tournaments in Florida)... the FIRST philosophy, as I understand it, is to > give the awards for the judged categories to as many different teams as > possible. Thus, one team will not receive two awards for two judged > categories, (i.e., Presentation, Robot Design & Teamwork). This is > intended > to motivate as many kids excited as possible to enjoy the experience, and > to > have as many teams as possible feel good about their work. The exception > to > this rule is the Robot Performance awards, since the Robot Performance > scores are posted publicly, so even if a team wins an award for a judged > category, they can also win an award for Robot Performance. When I > judged, > there were a few teams which could easily have taken 1st or 2nd place in > almost every category, but that would not make the other teams feel good, > so > FIRST has things set up so that the judges deliberate, and select no more > than one (judged) award per team. > > If the judging sessions' scores were posted at all, then at some > tournaments, a few teams would dominate, and get most of the awards. > Thus, > the judging scores are kept private, so that the awards, for the judged > categories, can be distributed to as many teams as possible. > > Whether one agrees with this approach or not, this is the FIRST > philosophy, > as I understand it. > > (Personally, I like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as > possible.) > > > 2. Judged Events: These aren't really a regular sporting game, like soccer > or baseball. The opinions of the judges enter into the judged scores, and > there's no way around that. In this sense, the judged events are more > like > figure skating or gymnastics scores. Some people feel that a judged event > is or is not really a sporting event like a game ... thus, posting judged > scores is an area of contention. > > Again, I do like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as > possible, and keeping the judged scores *not* posted, is one way to > accomplish this. > > > 3. FLL Policy Decisions Come From the Top: FLL is not a democracy, and > that's okay with me (most of the time). I'm in my 4th year of coaching > FLL, > and one thing I've learned about FLL, is that the important policy > decisions > about things like what the public is allowed to see (for example: judged > sessions & judged scores), are all decided at the top of the leadership > structure. If you can convince the state leadership, you may have a > chance > of implementing a change. Perhaps the state leadership might change > something if enough coaches requested it, but I have found that the > volunteers who run the state organizations are passionate folks who are > doing work which they feel strongly about, and they really are doing what > they believe is right for the children. And that seems to include *not* > posting the judged scores. > > I respect the amazing dedication, leadership and passion for helping the > children, which our state organizers display regularly. > > However, I can't recall even one time that they changed a significant > policy > decision, due to input from coaches (I will apologize if I'm wrong about > this). > > I am impressed that the state organizers can find enough common ground, > among all of us, to keep FLL going. > > They are doing an awesome job, and they have my appreciation. > > > I wish you luck in your effort to make FLL even better. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > Kevin Hines > FLL Coach > [log in to unmask] > www.RoanokeRobotics.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: First Lego League Discussion > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Annette Holloway > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:13 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring > > > Just some thoughts about the emphasis on scores - > > I think it would be nice to have rankings displayed briefly at the end > of the tournament for every judging category, and possibly have awards > for the second & third place as well. That way the Lego table does not > appear to be the most important thing. Our team did incredibly well on > their project, did not win an award, but it would have been very > encouraging to know if they were second. That additional feedback would > be helpful for upcoming years. > > Annette Holloway > NASA Ninjas > Hampton, Va > > ______________________________________________________________ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave > the list". > > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL > administrative announcements will be distributed - visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > > ______________________________________________________________ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave > the list". > > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL > administrative announcements will be distributed - visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:02:31 -0500 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Eric Palmer <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tournament Scoring Comments: To: Cynthia <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too want to second what Kevin and Cynthia has said. As a judge, the rubrics are important but we may end up with teams with identical scores and then it becomes a matter of what stands out and how much. I like to FIRST rules about no more than one award + robot performance. This creates the possibilities for more teams to get awards which can exit them and motivate them. And the teams that don't can see that with just a little more work or unity they too can get an award. Eric F. Palmer Judge, former coach and soon to be coach again (yea!) [log in to unmask] http://VitalJourney.org - Blog -----Original Message----- From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cynthia Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:44 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring I'd just like to second what Kevin said about the judging scores. While attempts have been made to make judging objective by implementing rubrics and numerical scores, presentation, teamwork, and robot design remain subjectively scored. It's all about impressing the judges enough that your team stands out in our minds at the end of the day. The scores help us weed out the very best teams, but many times, several teams end up with identical scores, and they all deserve the award. When it comes down to it, what matters much more is giving awards to as many deserving teams as possible. Hope this and Kevin's response help to clarify FIRST's side of things. Cynthia Judge ----- Original Message ----- From: "KevinHines" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring > Annette, > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts on posting FLL scores. > > The posting of scores is a topic which seems to come up each year, and > there > are many good opinions. Some coaches feel *all* scores should be posted, > some coaches feel *no* scores should be posted, and many coaches feel > somewhere in between. > > I'd like to reply to your thoughtful suggestion in a few parts: > > > 1. FIRST Philosophy about Awards: I am a FLL Coach (in my 4th year), and I > have also volunteered as a judge at FVC (the precursor to FTC) events (at > tournaments in Florida)... the FIRST philosophy, as I understand it, is to > give the awards for the judged categories to as many different teams as > possible. Thus, one team will not receive two awards for two judged > categories, (i.e., Presentation, Robot Design & Teamwork). This is > intended > to motivate as many kids excited as possible to enjoy the experience, and > to > have as many teams as possible feel good about their work. The exception > to > this rule is the Robot Performance awards, since the Robot Performance > scores are posted publicly, so even if a team wins an award for a judged > category, they can also win an award for Robot Performance. When I > judged, > there were a few teams which could easily have taken 1st or 2nd place in > almost every category, but that would not make the other teams feel good, > so > FIRST has things set up so that the judges deliberate, and select no more > than one (judged) award per team. > > If the judging sessions' scores were posted at all, then at some > tournaments, a few teams would dominate, and get most of the awards. > Thus, > the judging scores are kept private, so that the awards, for the judged > categories, can be distributed to as many teams as possible. > > Whether one agrees with this approach or not, this is the FIRST > philosophy, > as I understand it. > > (Personally, I like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as > possible.) > > > 2. Judged Events: These aren't really a regular sporting game, like soccer > or baseball. The opinions of the judges enter into the judged scores, and > there's no way around that. In this sense, the judged events are more > like > figure skating or gymnastics scores. Some people feel that a judged event > is or is not really a sporting event like a game ... thus, posting judged > scores is an area of contention. > > Again, I do like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as > possible, and keeping the judged scores *not* posted, is one way to > accomplish this. > > > 3. FLL Policy Decisions Come From the Top: FLL is not a democracy, and > that's okay with me (most of the time). I'm in my 4th year of coaching > FLL, > and one thing I've learned about FLL, is that the important policy > decisions > about things like what the public is allowed to see (for example: judged > sessions & judged scores), are all decided at the top of the leadership > structure. If you can convince the state leadership, you may have a > chance > of implementing a change. Perhaps the state leadership might change > something if enough coaches requested it, but I have found that the > volunteers who run the state organizations are passionate folks who are > doing work which they feel strongly about, and they really are doing what > they believe is right for the children. And that seems to include *not* > posting the judged scores. > > I respect the amazing dedication, leadership and passion for helping the > children, which our state organizers display regularly. > > However, I can't recall even one time that they changed a significant > policy > decision, due to input from coaches (I will apologize if I'm wrong about > this). > > I am impressed that the state organizers can find enough common ground, > among all of us, to keep FLL going. > > They are doing an awesome job, and they have my appreciation. > > > I wish you luck in your effort to make FLL even better. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > Kevin Hines > FLL Coach > [log in to unmask] > www.RoanokeRobotics.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: First Lego League Discussion > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Annette Holloway > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:13 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring > > > Just some thoughts about the emphasis on scores - > > I think it would be nice to have rankings displayed briefly at the end > of the tournament for every judging category, and possibly have awards > for the second & third place as well. That way the Lego table does not > appear to be the most important thing. Our team did incredibly well on > their project, did not win an award, but it would have been very > encouraging to know if they were second. That additional feedback would > be helpful for upcoming years. > > Annette Holloway > NASA Ninjas > Hampton, Va > > ______________________________________________________________ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave > the list". > > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL > administrative announcements will be distributed - visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > > ______________________________________________________________ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave > the list". > > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL > administrative announcements will be distributed - visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:48:35 -0500 Reply-To: "Swayne, Nick" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: "Swayne, Nick" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Our experience with middle school teams Comments: To: Rusty West <[log in to unmask]>, "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In response to Rusty - the option I went with for third year kids is to go with a smaller team. It's working...and I think the cockiness has more to do with 7th grade hormones and the narcissism associated with that age group. Reducing the size of the team means fewer "legends in their own minds" to deal with. On 11/21/08 4:32 PM, "Rusty West" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: We have two middle school teams, boys and girls. We tried having "tryouts" in the fall at the beginning of the school year. We had over 40 boys tryout for that team and 15 girls tryout for their team. Tryouts seemed to go on for weeks as we used some team building experiences and teacher recommendations. However, it turned out that the sixth grade teachers could not do accurate recommendation because they had only known the students a week or so at that point. The seventh and eighth grade students could go back to their previous years teachers here to get recommendations. Our solution has been that we start with tryouts each May. This means only the 6th and 7th graders, at that time, can tryout. We use the team building events and teacher recommendations. Then the team begins practice the first week of school, ready to go. We don't have any sixth graders and that seems to work as they have their hands full getting adjusted to middle school in September. Each year we start with a clean slate. If a student made the team the previous year, there is no guarantee they will make the team the following year. It seems we always have 8 really good candidates and I end up keeping 7 or 8. I really think when I have a team that has a few kids with experience it is better to have a smaller team so they have to work harder. It seems to help with the kids getting bored if they are almost over worked. Two years is about the most you can get out kids for FLL. The third year they are way too cocky that they have "been there, done that" and that attitude is not good for the team. Rusty West Page Middle School Gloucester, VA Pre-engineering Project Lead The Way / Gateway To Technology FIRST Lego League FIRST Tech Challenge http://gets.gc.k12.va.us/schools/page/ ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 23:45:38 -0500 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tournament Scoring Comments: To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All of this I understand. However, with absolutely no feedback on the three non-table aspects of FIRST, how is a team to have any idea how they performed? I am not advocating posting of scores in those areas, but the effectiveness of any test or competition is to have information whereby you can measure yourself. As it stands now, having experienced two Regionals and one State competition, our team is clueless as to how the judges evaluated our other three presentations. A simple check sheet based on the Rubics (without a numerical score) would be most helpful. Larry Sides Madison Menagerie Robotics Original Message: ----------------- From: Eric Palmer [log in to unmask] Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:02:31 -0500 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring I too want to second what Kevin and Cynthia has said. As a judge, the rubrics are important but we may end up with teams with identical scores and then it becomes a matter of what stands out and how much. I like to FIRST rules about no more than one award + robot performance. This creates the possibilities for more teams to get awards which can exit them and motivate them. And the teams that don't can see that with just a little more work or unity they too can get an award. Eric F. Palmer Judge, former coach and soon to be coach again (yea!) [log in to unmask] http://VitalJourney.org - Blog -----Original Message----- From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cynthia Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:44 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring I'd just like to second what Kevin said about the judging scores. While attempts have been made to make judging objective by implementing rubrics and numerical scores, presentation, teamwork, and robot design remain subjectively scored. It's all about impressing the judges enough that your team stands out in our minds at the end of the day. The scores help us weed out the very best teams, but many times, several teams end up with identical scores, and they all deserve the award. When it comes down to it, what matters much more is giving awards to as many deserving teams as possible. Hope this and Kevin's response help to clarify FIRST's side of things. Cynthia Judge ----- Original Message ----- From: "KevinHines" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring > Annette, > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts on posting FLL scores. > > The posting of scores is a topic which seems to come up each year, and > there > are many good opinions. Some coaches feel *all* scores should be posted, > some coaches feel *no* scores should be posted, and many coaches feel > somewhere in between. > > I'd like to reply to your thoughtful suggestion in a few parts: > > > 1. FIRST Philosophy about Awards: I am a FLL Coach (in my 4th year), and I > have also volunteered as a judge at FVC (the precursor to FTC) events (at > tournaments in Florida)... the FIRST philosophy, as I understand it, is to > give the awards for the judged categories to as many different teams as > possible. Thus, one team will not receive two awards for two judged > categories, (i.e., Presentation, Robot Design & Teamwork). This is > intended > to motivate as many kids excited as possible to enjoy the experience, and > to > have as many teams as possible feel good about their work. The exception > to > this rule is the Robot Performance awards, since the Robot Performance > scores are posted publicly, so even if a team wins an award for a judged > category, they can also win an award for Robot Performance. When I > judged, > there were a few teams which could easily have taken 1st or 2nd place in > almost every category, but that would not make the other teams feel good, > so > FIRST has things set up so that the judges deliberate, and select no more > than one (judged) award per team. > > If the judging sessions' scores were posted at all, then at some > tournaments, a few teams would dominate, and get most of the awards. > Thus, > the judging scores are kept private, so that the awards, for the judged > categories, can be distributed to as many teams as possible. > > Whether one agrees with this approach or not, this is the FIRST > philosophy, > as I understand it. > > (Personally, I like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as > possible.) > > > 2. Judged Events: These aren't really a regular sporting game, like soccer > or baseball. The opinions of the judges enter into the judged scores, and > there's no way around that. In this sense, the judged events are more > like > figure skating or gymnastics scores. Some people feel that a judged event > is or is not really a sporting event like a game ... thus, posting judged > scores is an area of contention. > > Again, I do like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as > possible, and keeping the judged scores *not* posted, is one way to > accomplish this. > > > 3. FLL Policy Decisions Come From the Top: FLL is not a democracy, and > that's okay with me (most of the time). I'm in my 4th year of coaching > FLL, > and one thing I've learned about FLL, is that the important policy > decisions > about things like what the public is allowed to see (for example: judged > sessions & judged scores), are all decided at the top of the leadership > structure. If you can convince the state leadership, you may have a > chance > of implementing a change. Perhaps the state leadership might change > something if enough coaches requested it, but I have found that the > volunteers who run the state organizations are passionate folks who are > doing work which they feel strongly about, and they really are doing what > they believe is right for the children. And that seems to include *not* > posting the judged scores. > > I respect the amazing dedication, leadership and passion for helping the > children, which our state organizers display regularly. > > However, I can't recall even one time that they changed a significant > policy > decision, due to input from coaches (I will apologize if I'm wrong about > this). > > I am impressed that the state organizers can find enough common ground, > among all of us, to keep FLL going. > > They are doing an awesome job, and they have my appreciation. > > > I wish you luck in your effort to make FLL even better. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > Kevin Hines > FLL Coach > [log in to unmask] > www.RoanokeRobotics.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: First Lego League Discussion > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Annette Holloway > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:13 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring > > > Just some thoughts about the emphasis on scores - > > I think it would be nice to have rankings displayed briefly at the end > of the tournament for every judging category, and possibly have awards > for the second & third place as well. That way the Lego table does not > appear to be the most important thing. Our team did incredibly well on > their project, did not win an award, but it would have been very > encouraging to know if they were second. That additional feedback would > be helpful for upcoming years. > > Annette Holloway > NASA Ninjas > Hampton, Va > > ______________________________________________________________ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave > the list". > > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL > administrative announcements will be distributed - visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > > ______________________________________________________________ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave > the list". > > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL > administrative announcements will be distributed - visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft� Windows� and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 05:28:29 -0500 Reply-To: Frank Fenneran <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Frank Fenneran <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Tournament Scoring Comments: To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been following this conversation with great interest. I am a first-year coach, but have been familiar with FLL for a couple of years now. On the one hand, I understand the goal and ideal of wanting the kids to feel proud of thier work, no matter their ranking at the tournament. I also understand that the three interview scores are a mix of objecive (based on the rubriks) and subjective (based on how the judges liked the presentation) and that makes "scoring" a bit difficult, especially with the idea that one team would not win more than one category. That being said, this is a competition. If it weren't, we would not have awards for the best for the day. (IE: best teamwork, best technical, etc). At the end of the day, each team does, in fact, have a "score" for each element of the day. While two or more teams may score the same, for example, in the objective aspects of the research presentation, the judges end up scoring them differently from a subjective point of view to be able to pick an ultimate winner. In my opinion, it would be helpful to know where my team ranked in the pile. If we did not win the teamwork award, were we second best? Were we in the middle of the pack? We we dead last? That helps us to evaluate our performance in light of both the objective goals (which we should know if we met or not) and the subjective presentation to the judging team. If we are dead last, sure, the kids will feel a little bad, but then its our job as coaches to turn those feelings into a motivation to learn from what we did and get better. It just seems to me that treating it as both a competition, but sort-of-kind-of-not-really a competition by not revealing how they did compared to the rest of the day's teams sends a mixed message. My gut tells me this is why this comes up as a topic of discussion each year. Respectfully, -Frank ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:16:30 -0500 Reply-To: Michael Blanpied <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Michael Blanpied <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tournament Scoring Comments: To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 11:45 PM -0500 11/23/08, [log in to unmask] wrote: >...with absolutely no feedback on the three non-table aspects of >FIRST, how is a team to have any idea how they performed? >... the effectiveness of any test or competition is to have >information whereby you can measure yourself. > >As it stands now, having experienced two Regionals and one State >competition, our team is clueless as to how the judges evaluated our other >three presentations. A simple check sheet based on the Rubics (without a >numerical score) would be most helpful. At the Sterling tournaments, the judges did, in fact, complete an extensive and detailed one-page check-list of pros and cons. I don't have those sheets in front of me, but I recall perhaps 20-25 check-boxes under both the pro and con categories, organized by Rubric area. There was also a space at the bottom for written comments. The coaches were handed those sheets at the same time the kids were receiving their participation ribbons, leaving it up to us when to review the notes and in what way to share them with the kids. This was far more, and more detailed, feedback than we'd received in previous years (those times there'd been a quarter-sheet form with only a few broad-category check-boxes), and we are grateful to those who composed the forms (was that you, Phil Smith?) and to the judges for making good use of them. Larry, perhaps you could work with your regional organizers to introduce such a practice next year. -- Cheers, Mike Blanpied Reston, VA 2006 #4809 Nano People 2007 #1666 Power Bunnies 2008 #5013 BLT--Brilliant LEGO Team ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:24:23 -0500 Reply-To: "Carolyn A. Fortner-Burton" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: "Carolyn A. Fortner-Burton" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tournament Scoring Comments: To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At the Midlothian H.S. tournament I received a folder with our teams evaluation. I'm using the feedback to help the kids figure out how they can improve next year, Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:46 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring All of this I understand. However, with absolutely no feedback on the three non-table aspects of FIRST, how is a team to have any idea how they performed? I am not advocating posting of scores in those areas, but the effectiveness of any test or competition is to have information whereby you can measure yourself. As it stands now, having experienced two Regionals and one State competition, our team is clueless as to how the judges evaluated our other three presentations. A simple check sheet based on the Rubics (without a numerical score) would be most helpful. Larry Sides Madison Menagerie Robotics Original Message: ----------------- From: Eric Palmer [log in to unmask] Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:02:31 -0500 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring I too want to second what Kevin and Cynthia has said. As a judge, the rubrics are important but we may end up with teams with identical scores and then it becomes a matter of what stands out and how much. I like to FIRST rules about no more than one award + robot performance. This creates the possibilities for more teams to get awards which can exit them and motivate them. And the teams that don't can see that with just a little more work or unity they too can get an award. Eric F. Palmer Judge, former coach and soon to be coach again (yea!) [log in to unmask] http://VitalJourney.org - Blog -----Original Message----- From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cynthia Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:44 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring I'd just like to second what Kevin said about the judging scores. While attempts have been made to make judging objective by implementing rubrics and numerical scores, presentation, teamwork, and robot design remain subjectively scored. It's all about impressing the judges enough that your team stands out in our minds at the end of the day. The scores help us weed out the very best teams, but many times, several teams end up with identical scores, and they all deserve the award. When it comes down to it, what matters much more is giving awards to as many deserving teams as possible. Hope this and Kevin's response help to clarify FIRST's side of things. Cynthia Judge ----- Original Message ----- From: "KevinHines" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring > Annette, > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts on posting FLL scores. > > The posting of scores is a topic which seems to come up each year, and > there > are many good opinions. Some coaches feel *all* scores should be posted, > some coaches feel *no* scores should be posted, and many coaches feel > somewhere in between. > > I'd like to reply to your thoughtful suggestion in a few parts: > > > 1. FIRST Philosophy about Awards: I am a FLL Coach (in my 4th year), and I > have also volunteered as a judge at FVC (the precursor to FTC) events (at > tournaments in Florida)... the FIRST philosophy, as I understand it, is to > give the awards for the judged categories to as many different teams as > possible. Thus, one team will not receive two awards for two judged > categories, (i.e., Presentation, Robot Design & Teamwork). This is > intended > to motivate as many kids excited as possible to enjoy the experience, and > to > have as many teams as possible feel good about their work. The exception > to > this rule is the Robot Performance awards, since the Robot Performance > scores are posted publicly, so even if a team wins an award for a judged > category, they can also win an award for Robot Performance. When I > judged, > there were a few teams which could easily have taken 1st or 2nd place in > almost every category, but that would not make the other teams feel good, > so > FIRST has things set up so that the judges deliberate, and select no more > than one (judged) award per team. > > If the judging sessions' scores were posted at all, then at some > tournaments, a few teams would dominate, and get most of the awards. > Thus, > the judging scores are kept private, so that the awards, for the judged > categories, can be distributed to as many teams as possible. > > Whether one agrees with this approach or not, this is the FIRST > philosophy, > as I understand it. > > (Personally, I like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as > possible.) > > > 2. Judged Events: These aren't really a regular sporting game, like soccer > or baseball. The opinions of the judges enter into the judged scores, and > there's no way around that. In this sense, the judged events are more > like > figure skating or gymnastics scores. Some people feel that a judged event > is or is not really a sporting event like a game ... thus, posting judged > scores is an area of contention. > > Again, I do like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as > possible, and keeping the judged scores *not* posted, is one way to > accomplish this. > > > 3. FLL Policy Decisions Come From the Top: FLL is not a democracy, and > that's okay with me (most of the time). I'm in my 4th year of coaching > FLL, > and one thing I've learned about FLL, is that the important policy > decisions > about things like what the public is allowed to see (for example: judged > sessions & judged scores), are all decided at the top of the leadership > structure. If you can convince the state leadership, you may have a > chance > of implementing a change. Perhaps the state leadership might change > something if enough coaches requested it, but I have found that the > volunteers who run the state organizations are passionate folks who are > doing work which they feel strongly about, and they really are doing what > they believe is right for the children. And that seems to include *not* > posting the judged scores. > > I respect the amazing dedication, leadership and passion for helping the > children, which our state organizers display regularly. > > However, I can't recall even one time that they changed a significant > policy > decision, due to input from coaches (I will apologize if I'm wrong about > this). > > I am impressed that the state organizers can find enough common ground, > among all of us, to keep FLL going. > > They are doing an awesome job, and they have my appreciation. > > > I wish you luck in your effort to make FLL even better. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > Kevin Hines > FLL Coach > [log in to unmask] > www.RoanokeRobotics.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: First Lego League Discussion > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Annette Holloway > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:13 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring > > > Just some thoughts about the emphasis on scores - > > I think it would be nice to have rankings displayed briefly at the end > of the tournament for every judging category, and possibly have awards > for the second & third place as well. That way the Lego table does not > appear to be the most important thing. Our team did incredibly well on > their project, did not win an award, but it would have been very > encouraging to know if they were second. That additional feedback would > be helpful for upcoming years. > > Annette Holloway > NASA Ninjas > Hampton, Va > > ______________________________________________________________ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave > the list". > > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL > administrative announcements will be distributed - visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > > ______________________________________________________________ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave > the list". > > If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL > administrative announcements will be distributed - visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium MicrosoftR WindowsR and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:25:34 -0500 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Ginny Echelberger <[log in to unmask]> Subject: FLL Teams Invited to Demonstrat your Robots and Projects at FTC Tournament Sat. Dec 6, Charlottesville Comments: To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C94E0E.39178080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C94E0E.39178080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FLL Teams wanting more experience (This can be a fun, end-of-season event!), Share the Excitement! If you would enjoy. * a fun team field trip (or if you are coming with an FTC team but the entire team can't come), * providing service to FLL by sharing your experience and knowledge of what it takes to be an FLL Team, * sharing your FLL experience with a wide variety of people, and * a chance to see the next stage of FIRST robots (48 FTC teams) from all over the state in action. email me to sign up for a shift at the FLL table on Saturday, Dec 6 at U-Hall in Charlottesville between 9-2. The FTC Tournament will be held in University Hall at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville < http://www.virginia.edu/webmap/FUHallAndAthletic.html> on December 5-6 in conjunction with a community Tech Fair on Dec 6. On Dec 6, we would like to have FLL Teams volunteer for shifts to run your robots, to teach the public about FLL and to share your experiences. It gives the teams a chance to share what they have learned and practice public speaking skills in a very fun way. You'll be amazed at the confidence this builds. Display and share your Research Projects as well. FTC (FIRST Tech Challenge) < http://www.vaftc.org/FTC%20Flyer08.pdf> http://www.vaftc.org/FTC%20Flyer08.pdf Please contact me directly. Ginny Echelberger (h) 434-973-0393 C 434-960-7022 ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C94E0E.39178080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

FLL Teams wanting more experience (This = can be a fun, end-of-season event!),

Share the = Excitement!

If you would = enjoy…

Ø = a fun team = field trip (or if you are coming with an FTC team but the entire team = can’t come),

Ø = providing = service to FLL by sharing your experience and knowledge of what it takes to be = an FLL Team,

Ø = sharing your = FLL experience with a wide variety of people, and =

Ø = a chance to = see the next stage of FIRST robots (48 FTC teams) from all over the state in = action…

email me to sign up for a shift at the = FLL table on Saturday, Dec 6 at U-Hall in Charlottesville between 9-2.

The FTC Tournament = will be held in University Hall at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville <http://www.virginia.edu/webmap/FUHallAndAthletic.= html> on December 5-6 in conjunction with a community Tech Fair on Dec 6. On = Dec 6, we would like to have FLL Teams volunteer for shifts to run your robots, = to teach the public about FLL and to share your experiences. It gives the = teams a chance to share what they have learned and practice public speaking = skills in a very fun way. You’ll be amazed at the confidence this builds. = Display and share your Research Projects as well.

FTC (FIRST Tech Challenge)
<http://www.vaftc.org/FTC%20Flyer08.pdf> http://www.vaftc.org/FTC%20Flyer08.pdf

Please contact me directly.

Ginny Echelberger

(h) 434-973-0393

© 434-960-7022

I want to chime in that I like the fact that the scores are not posted. They are very subjective, and so a score, in my opinion, does not necessarily reflect how well a team did in their own minds. Maybe they did really well in terms of what they were capable of, but received a score relatively low compared to other teams. You know what I mean? I like that the kids can evaluate themselves how thye feel they did.

I understand what you say about how knowing scores might help kids know better for next year, but if you posted scores based on that, you would be implying that winning is the goal, which has been clearly stated by FIRST that it is not.

Plus, just because you know your score, that you were second, or 16th, I don't think that really helps you know why. Why were you 2nd? What did the team that was 1st do that gave them that standing? We won't know those things. If you get an "F" on a paper, you would like the teacher to make comments and suggestions throughout the paper to know why they thought the paper deserved an "F". But you'd also feel pretty bad about the F, so it would be nicer to just get the comments.

I think the best way to help teams know is to have good feedback forms. I know the judges have a limited amount of time, but I would have liked more feedback on what we could have done better. We had some feedback forms, but we just had a few things checked off that were suggested as strengths, and I would have liked to know more. I love the idea of having the rubrics used on the feedback forms, as that is what we used to prepare our kids, but I found a lot of those things weren't asked in the sessions. Maybe next year they can make a statewide form for all the regional tournaments to use. That way people could collaborate on what worked well, and share ideas on how to have an efficient and helpful feedback form.

Sonya

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Carolyn A. Fortner-Burton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

At the Midlothian H.S. tournament I received a folder with our teams
evaluation. I'm using the feedback to help the kids figure out how they can
improve next year, Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On

Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:46 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring

All of this I understand. However, with absolutely no feedback on the
three non-table aspects of FIRST, how is a team to have any idea how they
performed? I am not advocating posting of scores in those areas, but the
effectiveness of any test or competition is to have information whereby you
can measure yourself.

As it stands now, having experienced two Regionals and one State
competition, our team is clueless as to how the judges evaluated our other
three presentations. A simple check sheet based on the Rubics (without a
numerical score) would be most helpful.

Larry Sides
Madison Menagerie Robotics

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Eric Palmer [log in to unmask]
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:02:31 -0500
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring

I too want to second what Kevin and Cynthia has said. As a judge, the
rubrics are important but we may end up with teams with identical scores and
then it becomes a matter of what stands out and how much.

I like to FIRST rules about no more than one award + robot performance.
This creates the possibilities for more teams to get awards which can exit
them and motivate them. And the teams that don't can see that with just a
little more work or unity they too can get an award.

Eric F. Palmer
Judge, former coach and soon to be coach again (yea!)

[log in to unmask]
http://VitalJourney.org - Blog

-----Original Message-----
From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Cynthia
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring

I'd just like to second what Kevin said about the judging scores. While
attempts have been made to make judging objective by implementing rubrics
and numerical scores, presentation, teamwork, and robot design remain
subjectively scored. It's all about impressing the judges enough that your
team stands out in our minds at the end of the day. The scores help us weed
out the very best teams, but many times, several teams end up with identical
scores, and they all deserve the award. When it comes down to it, what
matters much more is giving awards to as many deserving teams as possible.

Hope this and Kevin's response help to clarify FIRST's side of things.

Cynthia
Judge

----- Original Message -----
From: "KevinHines" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring

> Annette,
>
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts on posting FLL scores.
>
> The posting of scores is a topic which seems to come up each year, and
> there
> are many good opinions. Some coaches feel *all* scores should be posted,
> some coaches feel *no* scores should be posted, and many coaches feel
> somewhere in between.
>
> I'd like to reply to your thoughtful suggestion in a few parts:
>
>
> 1. FIRST Philosophy about Awards: I am a FLL Coach (in my 4th year), and I
> have also volunteered as a judge at FVC (the precursor to FTC) events (at
> tournaments in Florida)... the FIRST philosophy, as I understand it, is to
> give the awards for the judged categories to as many different teams as
> possible. Thus, one team will not receive two awards for two judged
> categories, (i.e., Presentation, Robot Design & Teamwork). This is
> intended
> to motivate as many kids excited as possible to enjoy the experience, and
> to
> have as many teams as possible feel good about their work. The exception
> to
> this rule is the Robot Performance awards, since the Robot Performance
> scores are posted publicly, so even if a team wins an award for a judged
> category, they can also win an award for Robot Performance. When I
> judged,
> there were a few teams which could easily have taken 1st or 2nd place in
> almost every category, but that would not make the other teams feel good,
> so
> FIRST has things set up so that the judges deliberate, and select no more
> than one (judged) award per team.
>
> If the judging sessions' scores were posted at all, then at some
> tournaments, a few teams would dominate, and get most of the awards.
> Thus,
> the judging scores are kept private, so that the awards, for the judged
> categories, can be distributed to as many teams as possible.
>
> Whether one agrees with this approach or not, this is the FIRST
> philosophy,
> as I understand it.
>
> (Personally, I like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as
> possible.)
>
>
> 2. Judged Events: These aren't really a regular sporting game, like soccer
> or baseball. The opinions of the judges enter into the judged scores, and
> there's no way around that. In this sense, the judged events are more
> like
> figure skating or gymnastics scores. Some people feel that a judged event
> is or is not really a sporting event like a game ... thus, posting judged
> scores is an area of contention.
>
> Again, I do like the FIRST way of giving awards to as many teams as
> possible, and keeping the judged scores *not* posted, is one way to
> accomplish this.
>
>
> 3. FLL Policy Decisions Come From the Top: FLL is not a democracy, and
> that's okay with me (most of the time). I'm in my 4th year of coaching
> FLL,
> and one thing I've learned about FLL, is that the important policy
> decisions
> about things like what the public is allowed to see (for example: judged
> sessions & judged scores), are all decided at the top of the leadership
> structure. If you can convince the state leadership, you may have a
> chance
> of implementing a change. Perhaps the state leadership might change
> something if enough coaches requested it, but I have found that the
> volunteers who run the state organizations are passionate folks who are
> doing work which they feel strongly about, and they really are doing what
> they believe is right for the children. And that seems to include *not*
> posting the judged scores.
>
> I respect the amazing dedication, leadership and passion for helping the
> children, which our state organizers display regularly.
>
> However, I can't recall even one time that they changed a significant
> policy
> decision, due to input from coaches (I will apologize if I'm wrong about
> this).
>
> I am impressed that the state organizers can find enough common ground,
> among all of us, to keep FLL going.
>
> They are doing an awesome job, and they have my appreciation.
>
>
> I wish you luck in your effort to make FLL even better.
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Hines
> FLL Coach
> [log in to unmask]
> www.RoanokeRobotics.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: First Lego League Discussion
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Annette Holloway
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:13 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament Scoring
>
>
> Just some thoughts about the emphasis on scores -
>
> I think it would be nice to have rankings displayed briefly at the end
> of the tournament for every judging category, and possibly have awards
> for the second & third place as well. That way the Lego table does not
> appear to be the most important thing. Our team did incredibly well on
> their project, did not win an award, but it would have been very
> encouraging to know if they were second. That additional feedback would
> be helpful for upcoming years.
>
> Annette Holloway
> NASA Ninjas
> Hampton, Va
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave
> the list".
>
> If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
> administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or
> leave the list".
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave

> the list".
>
> If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
> administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or

> leave the list".
>

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave
the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or
leave the list".

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave
the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or
leave the list".

--------------------------------------------------------------------
myhosting.com - Premium MicrosoftR WindowsR and Linux web and application

hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit
https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave
the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL
administrative announcements will be distributed - visit
https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or
leave the list".

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

I have= coached 4 teams, 2 teams did very well and 2 teams did not. As the s= eason went along I could tell pretty quickly how the teams would do.&n= bsp;

I think it is very important to the kids and to the coaches that the kid= s have some idea where they stand at the end of the day. If the kids = have worked hard throughout the season that will likely show up as a good r= esult in at least one area. Likewise if the kids have pretty much goo= fed around all season that will show up as well.

I think both lessons are important. I think the FLL is very good a= t rewarding hard work without over emphasizing winning.

Two ideas that I thought merit consideration are:

1. Teams bringing videos of their project and showing them on the = big screen during the competition. Totally optional of course but I b= et a lot of kids would like to see themselves on the big screen. = ; If a winning team has brought a video that could be shown during the brea= k before awards are given.

2. Some type of grouping of the other results. Maybe sh= ow the top ten teams in each category. If a team has not done well on= e year, getting in the top ten would be a great goal for the next. If= a team worked hard on their project but didn't win an award, a top ten fin= ish would still be a big big positive to build on.

Keep up the great work. Its great to see such passion about scienc= e.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Fenneran" <frank@FEN= NERAN.COM>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, Novembe= r 24, 2008 5:28:29 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] = Tournament Scoring

I've been following this conversation with great = interest. I am a
first-year coach, but have been familiar with FLL= for a couple of years
now.

On the one hand, I understand the goa= l and ideal of wanting the kids to
feel proud of thier work, no matter t= heir ranking at the tournament. I
also understand that the three i= nterview scores are a mix of objecive
(based on the rubriks) and subject= ive (based on how the judges liked the
presentation) and that makes "sco= ring" a bit difficult, especially with
the idea that one team would not = win more than one category.

That being said, this is a competition. = If it weren't, we would not have
awards for the best <fill in t= he blank> for the day. (IE: best teamwork,
best technical, etc). &nbs= p;At the end of the day, each team does, in fact,
have a "score" for eac= h element of the day. While two or more teams may
score the same, = for example, in the objective aspects of the research
presentation, the = judges end up scoring them differently from a subjective
point of view t= o be able to pick an ultimate winner.

In my opinion, it would be hel= pful to know where my team ranked in the
pile. If we did not win t= he teamwork award, were we second best? Were we
in the middle of t= he pack? We we dead last? That helps us to evaluate
our perf= ormance in light of both the objective goals (which we should know
if we= met or not) and the subjective presentation to the judging team.

If= we are dead last, sure, the kids will feel a little bad, but then its
o= ur job as coaches to turn those feelings into a motivation to learn fromwhat we did and get better.

It just seems to me that treating it as= both a competition, but
sort-of-kind-of-not-really a competition by not= revealing how they did
compared to the rest of the day's teams sends a = mixed message. My gut
tells me this is why this comes up as a topi= c of discussion each year.

Respectfully,
-Frank

__________= ____________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or C= HANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll= -l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the= VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements w= ill be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-= l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

I am replying to this late, but wanted to say that I think just letting people know that this list can be a huge and wonderful resource, and encouraging people to start conversing here as early as they can, is very helpful. As a rookie coach, I was incredibly lucky to have advice and guidance from people who knew much more than I, but I did still feel like there were some things I just had to figure out for myself. Some things you just don't know until you're in the middle of it.

But people should be encouraged to reach out, ask for help, ask questions. I did, and it was very helpful! Thanks!

Sonya in Harrisonburg

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Michael Blanpied <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Thoughts on the mentoring of rookie coaches...

Being a rookie coach is hard work. There is a lot to learn about FLL, a lot of kid-management and kid-guidance to be done, the challenge of a short season. Success at a regional tournament involves a lot of planning and insight that may be elusive even for those who read the coaching manual and read the listserv, and it may not be apparent to some rookie coaches that there are books, guides, conference calls and whatnot available to them.

This season (my third) I had the opportunity to provide some help and mentoring to a school librarian coaching a young rookie team at a school in a nearby county. Although we never met in person, we corresponded a number of times and talked on the phone a time or two, which gave her the opportunity to ask for guidance (from "where is the regional tournament?" to "what's really expected in the research project?" to "how can I know what the judges will ask?" to any number of questions about the intricate robot-match rules), and for me to offer advice that she may not have even known she needs. Although there were still a lot of aspects of the tournament that she found eye-opening, I think it was helpful.

I wonder if VADCFLL ought to consider formalizing such an arrangement for all new coaches. The idea would be to pair up each new coach with one (or maybe two) experienced coaches. This would be best done right at the start of the season, to make sure the rookie gets hooked up to the relevant web sites, listserv and other resources, and gets some tips on how to organize the work, set realistic goals, create appropriate ground-rules, understand the role of the coach in FLL, and pace out the short season. Ideally the experienced coach (or maybe his or her whole team, if experienced) would meet with the rookie group early in the season, but that would be above-and-beyond. As tournament date approaches, the mentor coach could provide guidance on creating a suitable presentation, interpreting the Q&A's, and how to get the kids, families and materials organized.

Thoughts?

--
Cheers,
Mike Blanpied
Reston, VA
2006 #4809 Nano People
2007 #1666 Power Bunnies
2008 #5013 BLT--Brilliant LEGO Team

______________________________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list".

=20

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone knows what the # of move blocks a single=20 program can use. It seems we are writing programs and when we get= to=20 approx. 15 blocks it will not take anymore. Is there a way around=20 this?

Your input is greatly appreciated.

Tracy Reed

4-H L.E.A.D Huskies

One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social netwo= rks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com<= /a> today! ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". -------------------------------1227705880-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:14:43 -0500 Reply-To: Frank Fenneran <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Frank Fenneran <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Limit to move Blocks Comments: To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01C94FA7.6BF6D100" This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C94FA7.6BF6D100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tracy, What do you mean that it won't take any more? Is it that it won't go any farther right on the screen space? If so, you do not have to stay in a straight line with the program. It is possible to start a new line of blocks and connect them to the end of the fist line by holding the shift key and dragging the beam-bar over to the new set of blocks. Does that make sense? -Frank From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tracy Reed Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:25 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Limit to move Blocks Hi, I was wondering if anyone knows what the # of move blocks a single program can use. It seems we are writing programs and when we get to approx. 15 blocks it will not take anymore. Is there a way around this? Your input is greatly appreciated. Tracy Reed 4-H L.E.A.D Huskies _____ One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today! ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C94FA7.6BF6D100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tracy,

What do you mean that it won’t take any more? = Is it that it won’t go any farther right on the screen space? If so, you do not have = to stay in a straight line with the program. It is possible to start a new line = of blocks and connect them to the end of the fist line by holding the shift key = and dragging the beam-bar over to the new set of = blocks.

Does that make sense?

-Frank

From:= First Lego = League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of = Tracy Reed
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:25 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [VADCFLL-L] Limit to move Blocks

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone knows what the # of move blocks a = single program can use. It seems we are writing programs and when we = get to approx. 15 blocks it will not take anymore. Is there a way around = this?

Your input is greatly appreciated.

Tracy Reed

4-H L.E.A.D Huskies

One site has it = all. = Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try = the new AOL.com today!

______________________________________________= ________________ ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join = or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - = to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select = "Join or leave the list".

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone knows what the # of move blocks a single program can use. It seems we are writing programs and when we get to approx. 15 blocks it will not take anymore. Is there a way around this?

Your input is greatly appreciated.

Tracy Reed

4-H L.E.A.D Huskies

Tracy,

I'm not aware of a limit, except on NXT brick memory. Our team has programs with as many as 17 Move blocks plus several Motor blocks. As a test, I doubled that (for a total of 34 Move, 10 Motor and assorted others) and it still compiled, loaded and ran.

It would be useful to know what you mean by "it will not take"...do you get an error message? Please post all the details and I'll bet someone can help.

I'm not sure if it's relevant or not to your problem, but you might include the version of NXT-G software you're using, and the firmware version on the brick (you can see that when you open up the NXT connection window from within NXT-G).

Regards,

Mike

Hello:

Does anyone know why I am = receiving (sometimes=20 multiple) duplicates of some posts? This has been happening to = me for=20 about a week. It doesn't happen with every post, but it's happening = often enough=20 that I thought I should mention it.

Thanks,
Amy

         =20 ..........         =20 ...............         &nbs= p;      =20 ..........         =20 ...............         &nbs= p;            = ;            =       =20
           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;    =20
           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;          =20 Those who dwell =
          =20 among the beauties & mysteries of the Earth=20
         are never alone or = weary of=20 life. (Rachel Carson)

We = ought to=20 stay out of the nuclei. (Wes=20 Jackson)
&= nbsp; =20 http://www.myspace.com/ashea23

My = guess:

When I hit "reply" the message = goes TO you. But when I hit "reply all " the message goes TO = you and is CC'd to the entire listserv.

Since you are on the = listserv then you are getting a separate = notification.

On Nov 26, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Amy Shea wrote:

Hello:

Does = anyone know why I am receiving (sometimes multiple) duplicates = of some posts? This has been happening to me for about a week. = It doesn't happen with every post, but it's happening often enough that = I thought I should mention it.

Thanks,
Amy
    &= nbsp;     = ..........          = ...............          = ;       = ..........          = ...............          = ;            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;
    &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;
    &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;            = ;      Those who dwell
    &= nbsp;      among the beauties & mysteries = of the Earth
    &= nbsp;    are never alone or weary of life. (Rachel = Carson)

     &nb= sp;     We ought to stay out of the nuclei. (Wes = Jackson)
          &n= bsp;         http://www.myspace.com/ashea23

_________________________= _____________________________________ = ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv= .jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave = the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to = which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://li= stserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave = the list".
= ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". --Apple-Mail-2-310597380-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:56:49 -0500 Reply-To: Amy Shea <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Amy Shea <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: server issues? Comments: To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0A5B_01C94FCE.D40144C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0A5B_01C94FCE.D40144C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, but I've never before posted to the entire listserv (potential = future coach; just reading & lurking), so 'til now wouldn't be receiving = replies to my messages. :) Thanks, Amy=20 .......... ............... .......... = ............... =20 =20 Those who dwell=20 among the beauties & mysteries of the Earth=20 are never alone or weary of life. (Rachel Carson) We ought to stay out of the nuclei. (Wes Jackson) http://www.myspace.com/ashea23 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David Levy=20 When I hit "reply" the message goes TO you. But when I hit "reply = all " the message goes TO you and is CC'd to the entire listserv. Since you are on the listserv then you are getting a separate = notification. DL ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_NextPart_000_0A5B_01C94FCE.D40144C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well, but I've never before posted to the = entire=20 listserv (potential future coach; just reading & lurking), so 'til = now=20 wouldn't be receiving replies to my messages. :)

Thanks,
Amy

We = ought to=20 stay out of the nuclei. (Wes=20 Jackson)
&= nbsp; =20 http://www.myspace.com/ashea23

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">David Levy

When I hit "reply" the message goes TO you. But when I hit=20 "reply all " the message goes TO you and is CC'd to the entire=20 listserv.

Since you are on the listserv then you are getting a separate=20 notification.

David,

We started up the NXT ( we have version 1.0) fresh today, after a good=20 rest. and everything worked fine, it took the block plus several=20 more! We did discuss one common factor, this seems to happen afte= r=20 the robot has been in use for maybe 2 or so hours with LOTS of programming o= r=20 changes to a program. Any thoughts?

The blocks are no longer on the program for me to attatch, the student=20= took=20 them off when he could not get them to work. I did look at them and th= ey=20 were simple move blocks, ports b and c, 75 % power, 2 rotations,=20 brake. The original block was done in degrees, they have learned how t= o=20 access the view window and push the robot manually to=20= it's=20 desired stopping point and then key in the degrees on the move block.

Thanks,

Tracy

In a message dated 11/26/2008 10:24:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 [log in to unmask] writes:

<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
In=20 that case the obvious answer is out of memory error when downloading= =20
but from what you are saying there is no such error and it appears to=20
download just fine. Therefore I think you are making a assumptio= n=20 that
the block was not included. There may be physical=20 conditions where
they block does not appear to run.
Can you you at= tach=20 your program?

Also do you want to cc the listserv again since there= are=20 a couple of
others that have chimed=20 in?

David

[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Hi David,
>=20= Yes,=20 a team member had 15 blocks and added another and it would not
>=20 transfer it to the NXT. He also added 4 identical blocks and they=20
> would not download.   We have also had this problem whe= re=20 we would add
> a move forward mini move it would not pick it up on=20= the=20 NXT so we
> would put an identical move block in front of it and it= =20 would take
> it? I will be sure the kids are "saving" the new= =20 move before
> downloading. It happens sporadically. There is=20= no=20 problem dragging
> the move block and having it show up on the comp= uter=20 screen, it just
> does not always transfer to the brick. We downloa= d=20 and it downloads as
> always (compiling info is up on the screen an= d we=20 get the beep when
> finished) There does not seem to be any rhyme o= r=20 reason to this, it
> has only happened with one or two long=20 programs. We reboot everything
> and keep playing with it and= =20 usually it will end up taking it so we go
> back and delete the=20 "phantom blocks that are identical" and all is
> well. = =20 I was reading up on My blocks to see if that would help. I
>= =20 can't find anywhere in the NXT book where there are limitations on
>= ;=20 blocks in a program.
>
> Thanks,
>=20 Tracy
>
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2008=20 9:15:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] =20 writes:
>
>
>    Hi Tracy,
> = =20    What do you mean by " it will not take anymore "? = ; Is=20 it that
>    you can
>    not=20= drag=20 in another block, save the program, download to the brick?
> =20    David
>
>    Tracy Reed=20 wrote:
>    >
>    >=20 Hi,
>    > I was wondering if anyone knows what t= he #=20 of move blocks a single
>    > program can use.&n= bsp;=20 It seems we are writing programs and when we
>    ge= t=20 to
>    > approx. 15 blocks it will not take=20 anymore. Is there a way
>    around=20 this?
>    >
>    > You= r=20 input is greatly appreciated.
>    >
>&nbs= p;=20    > Tracy Reed
>    > 4-H L.E.A.D=20 Huskies
>    >
>   =20 >
>    >
>   =20 >
>    >
>   =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------> =20    > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your=20 social
>    networks, and
>   = =20 > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected=20 a
>    possible
>    > frau= d=20 attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL.com
> =20    >
>   =20 <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redi= r=3Dhttp://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp%26icid=3Daolcom40vanity%26ncid=3Demlc= ntaolcom00000001>
>
> =20    > today!*
>    >=20 ______________________________________________________________
>&nbs= p;=20    >=20 ______________________________________________________________=20 To
>    > UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION= ,=20 please visit
>    >=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select
> =20    "Join or
>    > leave the list". If=20= you=20 want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing
>   =20 list
>    > - to which FLL administrative=20 announcements will be distributed -
>    > visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and
> =20    > select "Join or leave the=20 list".
>
>
>
>
>=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------>=20 *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and
= >=20 the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected a possible=20
> fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL.com
&g= t;=20 <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redi= r=3Dhttp://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp%26icid=3Daolcom40vanity%26ncid=3Demlc= ntaolcom00000001>=20
> today!*

Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". -------------------------------1227735243-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:12:18 -0500 Reply-To: David Levy <[log in to unmask]> Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: David Levy <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Limit to move Blocks Comments: To: [log in to unmask] Comments: cc: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2-322235776 --Apple-Mail-2-322235776 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tracy, If you can't upgrade to 1.1 (and the latest firmware) then I'd suggest that you insert a sound block before and after the offending block. If from time time you don't here the chime then it may be an indication of a memory leak ( as opposed to a physical stall condition during the execution of the offending block). Using my-blocks may provide you some slack. Sorry I could not be of more help. Happy Thanksgiving David On Nov 26, 2008, at 4:34 PM, Tracy Reed wrote: > David, > > We started up the NXT ( we have version 1.0) fresh today, after a > good rest. and everything worked fine, it took the block plus > several more! We did discuss one common factor, this seems to > happen after the robot has been in use for maybe 2 or so hours with > LOTS of programming or changes to a program. Any thoughts? > The blocks are no longer on the program for me to attatch, the > student took them off when he could not get them to work. I did > look at them and they were simple move blocks, ports b and c, 75 % > power, 2 rotations, brake. The original block was done in degrees, > they have learned how to access the view window and push the robot > manually to it's desired stopping point and then key in the degrees > on the move block. > > Thanks, > Tracy > > In a message dated 11/26/2008 10:24:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] > writes: > > In that case the obvious answer is out of memory error when > downloading > but from what you are saying there is no such error and it appears to > download just fine. Therefore I think you are making a assumption > that > the block was not included. There may be physical conditions where > they block does not appear to run. > Can you you attach your program? > > Also do you want to cc the listserv again since there are a couple of > others that have chimed in? > > David > > [log in to unmask] wrote: > > Hi David, > > Yes, a team member had 15 blocks and added another and it would not > > transfer it to the NXT. He also added 4 identical blocks and they > > would not download. We have also had this problem where we would > add > > a move forward mini move it would not pick it up on the NXT so we > > would put an identical move block in front of it and it would take > > it? I will be sure the kids are "saving" the new move before > > downloading. It happens sporadically. There is no problem dragging > > the move block and having it show up on the computer screen, it just > > does not always transfer to the brick. We download and it > downloads as > > always (compiling info is up on the screen and we get the beep when > > finished) There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason to this, it > > has only happened with one or two long programs. We reboot > everything > > and keep playing with it and usually it will end up taking it so > we go > > back and delete the "phantom blocks that are identical" and all is > > well. I was reading up on My blocks to see if that would > help. I > > can't find anywhere in the NXT book where there are limitations on > > blocks in a program. > > > > Thanks, > > Tracy > > > > > > In a message dated 11/26/2008 9:15:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > [log in to unmask] writes: > > > > > > Hi Tracy, > > What do you mean by " it will not take anymore "? Is it that > > you can > > not drag in another block, save the program, download to the > brick? > > David > > > > Tracy Reed wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I was wondering if anyone knows what the # of move blocks a > single > > > program can use. It seems we are writing programs and when we > > get to > > > approx. 15 blocks it will not take anymore. Is there a way > > around this? > > > > > > Your input is greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Tracy Reed > > > 4-H L.E.A.D Huskies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social > > networks, and > > > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected a > > possible > > > fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL.com > > > > > > > > > > > today!* > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > > ______________________________________________________________ To > > > UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit > > > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select > > "Join or > > > leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L > mailing > > list > > > - to which FLL administrative announcements will be > distributed - > > > visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html > and > > > select "Join or leave the list". > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, > and > > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected a > possible > > fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL.com > > > > > today!* > > > > > Life should be easier. So should your homepage. MailScanner has > detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.aol.com" claiming to be > Try the NEW AOL.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________ To > UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html > and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the > VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative > announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html > and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". --Apple-Mail-2-322235776 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tracy,

If you = can't upgrade to 1.1 (and the latest firmware) then I'd suggest that you = insert a sound block before and after the offending block. If = from time time you don't here the chime then it may be an indication of = a memory leak ( as opposed to a physical stall condition during the = execution of the offending block).

Using = my-blocks may provide you some slack.

Sorry I = could not be of more help.

Happy = Thanksgiving

David

On Nov = 26, 2008, at 4:34 PM, Tracy Reed wrote:

David,

=
We started up the NXT ( we have version 1.0) fresh today, after a = good rest. and everything worked fine, it took the block plus several = more!  We did discuss one common factor, this seems to happen = after the robot has been in use for maybe 2 or so hours with LOTS of = programming or changes to a program. Any thoughts?
=
The blocks are no longer on the program for me to attatch, the = student took them off when he could not get them to work. I did = look at them and they were simple move blocks, ports b and c, 75 % = power, 2 rotations, brake. The original block was done in degrees, = they have learned how to access the view window and push = the robot manually to it's desired stopping point and then = key in the degrees on the move block.

=
Thanks,

Tracy

In a message = dated 11/26/2008 10:24:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] g writes:

In that case the obvious answer is out of memory = error when downloading
but from what you are saying there is no = such error and it appears to
download just fine. Therefore I = think you are making a assumption that
the block was not = included. There may be physical conditions where
they = block does not appear to run.
Can you you attach your = program?

Also do you want to cc the listserv again since there = are a couple of
others that have chimed = in?

David

[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Hi = David,
> Yes, a team member had 15 blocks and added another and it = would not
> transfer it to the NXT. He also added 4 = identical blocks and they
> would not download.   We = have also had this problem where we would add
> a move forward = mini move it would not pick it up on the NXT so we
> would put an = identical move block in front of it and it would take
> it? = I will be sure the kids are "saving" the new move before
> = downloading. It happens sporadically. There is no problem = dragging
> the move block and having it show up on the computer = screen, it just
> does not always transfer to the brick. We download = and it downloads as
> always (compiling info is up on the screen = and we get the beep when
> finished) There does not seem to be any = rhyme or reason to this, it
> has only happened with one or two = long programs. We reboot everything
> and keep playing with = it and usually it will end up taking it so we go
> back and delete = the "phantom blocks that are identical" and all is
> well. = I was reading up on My blocks to see if that would help. = I
> can't find anywhere in the NXT book where there are = limitations on
> blocks in a program.
>
> = Thanks,
> Tracy
>
>
> In a message dated = 11/26/2008 9:15:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] g writes:
>
>
>    Hi Tracy,
> =    What do you mean by " it will not take anymore "? = Is it that
>    you can
> =    not drag in another block, save the program, download to = the brick?
>    David
>
>    = Tracy Reed wrote:
>    >
>    > = Hi,
>    > I was wondering if anyone knows what the = # of move blocks a single
>    > program can = use. It seems we are writing programs and when we
> =    get to
>    > approx. 15 blocks it = will not take anymore. Is there a way
>    = around this?
>    >
>    > Your = input is greatly appreciated.
>    >
> =    > Tracy Reed
>    > 4-H L.E.A.D = Huskies
>    >
>    = >
>    >
>    >
> =    >
>    = ------------------------------------------------------------------------>    > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, = your social
>    networks, and
> =    > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has = detected a
>    possible
>    > = fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL.com
> =    >
>    <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1= 200825291/aol?redir=3Dhttp://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp%26icid=3Daolcom40= vanity%26ncid=3Demlcntaolcom00000001>
>
>    = > today!*
>    > = ______________________________________________________________
> =    > = ______________________________________________________________ = To
>    > UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, = please visit
>    > https://listserv= .jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select
> =    "Join or
>    > leave the list". If you = want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing
>    = list
>    > - to which FLL administrative = announcements will be distributed -
>    > visit https://li= stserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and
> =    > select "Join or leave the = list".
>
>
>
>
> = ------------------------------------------------------------------------> *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, = and
> the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected = a possible
> fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* = AOL.com
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1= 200825291/aol?redir=3Dhttp://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp%26icid=3Daolcom40= vanity%26ncid=3Demlcntaolcom00000001>
> = today!*

Life should be easier. So should your = homepage. MailScanner has = detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.aol.com" claiming to = be Try the NEW AOL.com.
= ______________________________________________________________ = ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv= .jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the = list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which = FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://li= stserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or = leave the list".

= ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". --Apple-Mail-2-322235776-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:25:31 EST Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Tracy Reed <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Limit to move Blocks Comments: To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1228055131" -------------------------------1228055131 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Larry, =20 Scroll the screen until you find the "view" window. Select and scroll over= =20 to the gears window, one will have a "R" and one will have a "D" in the =20 bottom corner. Select the window with "D" and then a window with port, A, =20= B or C=20 will come up, select the port you wish to program, (for us A is an arm and=20= B=20 and C are controlling the wheels). Once you select your port you will=20 manually push your robot to the desired distance / location. The degrees w= ill come=20 up on the window and you can key that into your move block. If you=20 select "R" it will give you the # of Rotations needed and if you select "D"= it=20 will give you the degrees needed. We have found the degrees to be more=20 accurate than the Rotations. Be sure when programming the move block to ke= y in =20 "Degrees". We are still experimenting with this on curve turns and it has =20= not=20 been as accurate. It has worked well with turns, our arm and straight shot= s. =20 If you are traveling backwards the degrees will show on the screen as " -=20 720 " you do not key in the "-" just choose the backwards arrow on your bl= ock. =20 I do hope I explained this clearly. We are still playing with this new=20 discovery. If I am missing information or someone can add to this I would= be=20 grateful. I do know it has made our programming go much faster. One of ou= r=20 team members received the "Lego Mindstorms NXT Idea Book" and it is awesome= . =20 The kids cannot wait until the off season to plow through these projects. =20 =20 Note on the move block issue. David thank you I have ordered the upgrade=20 and we are experimenting with putting some of our written programs into a M= y b lock to save space, is this correct? One student had a question, Could eac= h=20 mission be programmed and be put into a "My Block", and then put each "My=20 Block" into one program? They are working on ways to not have to spend tim= e at=20 the table scrolling through the brick to find each mission file. Even when= =20 the missions are downloaded to the brick in order of their runs they still=20= have=20 to scroll to find them. =20 Thank you, Tracy =20 =20 unIn a message dated 11/29/2008 6:40:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, =20 [log in to unmask] writes: =20 =20 Tracy,=20 We noted your phrase, =E2=80=9Cthey have learned how to access the view wi= ndow and=20 push the robot manually to it's desired stopping point and then key in the=20 degrees on the move block.=E2=80=9D How do you do that?=20 =20 Thank you,=20 Larry Sides=20 Madison Menagerie Robotics =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] O= n=20 Behalf Of Tracy Reed Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:34 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Limit to move Blocks =20 David, =20 =20 =20 We started up the NXT ( we have version 1.0) fresh today, after a good rest= .=20 and everything worked fine, it took the block plus several more! We did=20 discuss one common factor, this seems to happen after the robot has been in= use=20 for maybe 2 or so hours with LOTS of programming or changes to a program. =20= =20 Any thoughts? =20 =20 The blocks are no longer on the program for me to attatch, the student took= =20 them off when he could not get them to work. I did look at them and they=20 were simple move blocks, ports b and c, 75 % power, 2 rotations, brake. Th= e=20 original block was done in degrees, they have learned how to access the vie= w =20 window and push the robot manually to it's desired stopping point and the= n=20 key in the degrees on the move block. =20 =20 Thanks, =20 =20 Tracy =20 =20 In a message dated 11/26/2008 10:24:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, =20 [log in to unmask] writes: =20 In that case the obvious answer is out of memory error when downloading=20 but from what you are saying there is no such error and it appears to =20 download just fine. Therefore I think you are making a assumption that=20 the block was not included. There may be physical conditions where=20 they block does not appear to run.=20 Can you you attach your program? Also do you want to cc the listserv again since there are a couple of=20 others that have chimed in? David [log in to unmask] wrote: > Hi David, > Yes, a team member had 15 blocks and added another and it would not=20 > transfer it to the NXT. He also added 4 identical blocks and they =20 > would not download. We have also had this problem where we would add=20 > a move forward mini move it would not pick it up on the NXT so we=20 > would put an identical move block in front of it and it would take=20 > it? I will be sure the kids are "saving" the new move before=20 > downloading. It happens sporadically. There is no problem dragging=20 > the move block and having it show up on the computer screen, it just=20 > does not always transfer to the brick. We download and it downloads as=20 > always (compiling info is up on the screen and we get the beep when=20 > finished) There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason to this, it=20 > has only happened with one or two long programs. We reboot everything=20 > and keep playing with it and usually it will end up taking it so we go=20 > back and delete the "phantom blocks that are identical" and all is=20 > well. I was reading up on My blocks to see if that would help. I=20 > can't find anywhere in the NXT book where there are limitations on=20 > blocks in a program. > =20 > Thanks, > Tracy > =20 > =20 > In a message dated 11/26/2008 9:15:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 > [log in to unmask] writes: > > > Hi Tracy, > What do you mean by " it will not take anymore "? Is it that > you can > not drag in another block, save the program, download to the brick? > David > > Tracy Reed wrote: > >=20 > > Hi, > > I was wondering if anyone knows what the # of move blocks a single > > program can use. It seems we are writing programs and when we > get to > > approx. 15 blocks it will not take anymore. Is there a way > around this? > >=20 > > Your input is greatly appreciated. > >=20 > > Tracy Reed > > 4-H L.E.A.D Huskies=20 > > > > > > > > > > > =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social > networks, and > > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected a > possible > > fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL.com > > > =20 > > > today!* > > ______________________________________________________________ > > ______________________________________________________________ To > > UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit > > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select > "Join or > > leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing > list > > - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - > > visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and > > select "Join or leave the list". > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and =20 > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected a possible=20 > fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL.com =20 > =20 =20 > today!* =20 ____________________________________ =20 Life should be easier. So should your homepage. _Try the NEW AOL.com_=20 (http://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp&icid=3Daolcom40vanity&ncid=3Demlcntaolco= m00000002) . ______________________________________________________________ =20 ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIB= E or CHANGE=20 YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit =20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave t= he list". If you want to join the=20 VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements wi= ll be=20 distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html=20= and select=20 "Join or leave the list". **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW=20 AOL.com.=20 (http://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp&icid=3Daolcom40vanity&ncid=3Demlcntaolco= m00000002) ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". -------------------------------1228055131 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en

Larry,

Scroll the screen until you find the "view" window. Select and sc= roll=20 over to the gears window, one will have a "R" and one will have a "D" in the= =20 bottom corner. Select the window with "D" and then a window with port,= A,=20 B or C will come up, select the port you wish to program, (for us A is=20= an=20 arm and B and C are controlling the wheels). Once you select= =20 your port you will manually push your robot to the desired distanc= e /=20 location. The degrees will come up on the window and you can key that=20= into=20 your move block. If you select "R" it wil= l=20 give you the # of Rotations needed and if you select "D" it will give you th= e=20 degrees needed. We have found the degrees to be more accurate than the= =20 Rotations. Be sure when programming the move block to key in=20 "Degrees". We are still experimenting with this on curve turns and it=20= has=20 not been as accurate. It has worked well with turns, our arm and strai= ght=20 shots. If you are traveling backwards the degrees will show on the scr= een=20 as " - 720 " you do not key in the "-" just choose the backw= ards=20 arrow on your block.

I do hope I explained this clearly. We are still playing wit= h=20 this new discovery. If I am missing information or someone can&nb= sp;=20 add to this I would be grateful. I do know it has made our=20 programming go much faster. One of our team members received the "Lego= =20 Mindstorms NXT Idea Book" and it is awesome. The kids cannot wait unti= l=20 the off season to plow through these projects.

Note on the move block issue. David thank you I have ordered the=20 upgrade and we are experimenting with putting some of our written=20 programs into a My block to save space, is this correct? One student h= ad a=20 question, Could each mission be programmed and be put into a "My Block"= ,=20 and then put each "My Block" into one program? They are work= ing=20 on ways to not have to spend time at the table scrolling through the brick t= o=20 find each mission file. Even when the missions are downloaded to the b= rick=20 in order of their runs they still have to scroll to find them.

Thank you,

Tracy

unIn a message dated 11/29/2008 6:40:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 [log in to unmask] writes:

<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>

T= racy,

<= o:p>

W= e=20 noted your phrase, =E2=80=9Cthey have learned how to access the view=20 window and push the robot manually to it's desired stopping poin= t=20 and then key in the degrees on the move block.=E2=80=9D How do you d= o=20 that?

<= o:p>

T= hank=20 you,

L= arry=20 Sides

M= adison=20 Menagerie Robotics

<= o:p>

From:On Behalf Of Tracy Reed
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008=20 4:34 PM
<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:=20 [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Limit to m= ove=20 Blocks

David,=20

We started up=20= the=20 NXT ( we have version 1.0) fresh today, after a good rest. and everything=20 worked fine, it took the block plus several more! We did discus= s=20 one common factor, this seems to happen after the robot has been in use fo= r=20 maybe 2 or so hours with LOTS of programming or changes to a program. = ;=20 Any thoughts?

The blocks are= no=20 longer on the program for me to attatch, the student took them off when he= =20 could not get them to work. I did look at them and they were simple=20= move=20 blocks, ports b and c, 75 % power, 2 rotations, brake. The orig= inal=20 block was done in degrees, they have learned how to access the view=20 window and push the robot manually to it's desired=20 stopping point and then key in the degrees on the move=20 block.

Thanks,=20

Tracy

In a message d= ated=20 11/26/2008 10:24:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 [log in to unmask] writes:

In that=20= case=20 the obvious answer is out of memory error when downloading
but= =20 from what you are saying there is no such error and it appears to=20
download just fine. Therefore I think you are making a assumpt= ion=20 that
the block was not included. There may be physical=20 conditions where
they block does not appear to run.
Can you you=20 attach your program?

Also do you want to cc the listserv again si= nce=20 there are a couple of
others that have chimed=20 in?

David

[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Hi David,
>= ;=20 Yes, a team member had 15 blocks and added another and it would not
= >=20 transfer it to the NXT. He also added 4 identical blocks and they=20
> would not download.   We have also had this problem w= here=20 we would add
> a move forward mini move it would not pick it up o= n=20 the NXT so we
> would put an identical move block in front of it=20= and=20 it would take
> it? I will be sure the kids are "saving" th= e=20 new move before
> downloading. It happens sporadically. The= re=20 is no problem dragging
> the move block and having it show up on=20= the=20 computer screen, it just
> does not always transfer to the brick.= We=20 download and it downloads as
> always (compiling info is up on th= e=20 screen and we get the beep when
> finished) There does not seem t= o be=20 any rhyme or reason to this, it
> has only happened with one or t= wo=20 long programs. We reboot everything
> and keep playing with= it=20 and usually it will end up taking it so we go
> back and delete t= he=20 "phantom blocks that are identical" and all is
> well. &nbs= p;=20 I was reading up on My blocks to see if that would help. I
&g= t;=20 can't find anywhere in the NXT book where there are limitations on
&= gt;=20 blocks in a program.
>
> Thanks,
> Tracy
>&= nbsp;=20
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2008 9:15:18 A.M. Easte= rn=20 Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>    Hi Tracy,
>= =20    What do you mean by " it will not take anymore "? &nb= sp;=20 Is it that
>    you can
>   = not=20 drag in another block, save the program, download to the=20 brick?
>    David
>
> &nbs= p;=20 Tracy Reed wrote:
>    >
> =20    > Hi,
>    > I was wondering if= =20 anyone knows what the # of move blocks a single
> &nbs= p;=20 > program can use. It seems we are writing programs and when=20 we
>    get to
>    > app= rox.=20 15 blocks it will not take anymore. Is there a way
> =20    around this?
>    >
> = =20    > Your input is greatly appreciated.
> =20    >
>    > Tracy Reed
>&nb= sp;=20    > 4-H L.E.A.D Huskies
>   =20 >
>    >
>   =20 >
>    >
>   =20 >
>   =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =20    > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your=20 social
>    networks, and
> &nbs= p;=20 > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected=20 a
>    possible
>    > fr= aud=20 attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL.com
> =20    >
>   =20 <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?re= dir=3Dhttp://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp%26icid=3Daolcom40vanity%26ncid=3Dem= lcntaolcom00000001>
>
> =20    > today!*
>    >=20 ______________________________________________________________
>&n= bsp;=20    >=20 ______________________________________________________________=20 To
>    > UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTI= ON,=20 please visit
>    >=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select
> = ;=20    "Join or
>    > leave the list". I= f=20 you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing
>   =20 list
>    > - to which FLL administrative=20 announcements will be distributed -
>    > visi= t=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and
> = =20    > select "Join or leave the=20 list".
>
>
>
>
>=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>=20 *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and=20
> the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected a=20 possible
> fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL= .com=20
>=20 <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?re= dir=3Dhttp://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp%26icid=3Daolcom40vanity%26ncid=3Dem= lcntaolcom00000001>=20
> today!*

<= /o:p>

Life=20 should be easier. So should your homepage. Try=20 the NEW=20 AOL.com.

_____________________= _________________________________________=20 ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCR= IBE=20 or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave= the=20 list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL= =20 administrative announcements will be distributed - visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or= =20 leave the list".

Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try= the NEW AOL.com.

I'm not sure about that. I'd guess that = the only benefit would be reduce screen space. The primary = purpose of a my-block is to capture repeatable sequences of a = program ( like a sub-routine , function, macro , or class) so they = can be defined in one place and easily maintained. As a secondary = benefit, there would be a reduction in program size because = the space for sequences of blocks housed in a = my-block need only be allocated once. =

There is some decent coverage of this is in = the NXT Idea Book that you mentioned. Myblocks are demonstrated = In the chapter named " Marty - A Performance Art Robot". For = example the My-blocks named "pen-up" and "pen-down" = are repeatable sequences.

"One student had a = question, Could each mission be programmed and be put into a "My = Block", and then put each "My Block" into one = program? They are working on ways to not have to spend time = at the table scrolling through the brick to find each mission = file. Even when the missions are downloaded to the brick in order = of their runs they still have to scroll to find = them."

The kids get pretty good at knowing where to = find their programs in a hurry so I'd suggest that you only combine two = or three programs at a time. Our team does this when missions = return to base and don't require additional attachments that delay the = robot from being sent out again. This techique was outlined here on = the listserv a few weeks ago and should still be in the archive : = https://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A1=3Dind0811&L=3Dvadcfll-l = in a topic named "Moving robot in base while program = pauses"

"Viewing the rotational count while = pushing the robot."

Here's an = alternative that demonstrates how mathematical formulas = learned in school can be applied to the = robot:

Have the kids use a tape measure on the table = to get the desired distance. Then have them measure = the circumference of their wheel. ( added bonus if any = of the team members knows the formula for the circumference of a = circle.) Explain that the vehicle will travel a distance = equal to the circumference of the wheel for every 1 rotation of the = motor ( this assumes that you are not connecting two or more = different sized gears from the motor to the = wheel).

Here is the = formula for calculating the rotational count for your motor = block:

rotations =3D = desired distance to travel / wheel = circumference

degrees =3D = rotations * 360

Have fun,

David

On Nov 30, = 2008, at 9:25 AM, Tracy Reed wrote:

Larry,

=
Scroll the screen until you find the "view" window. Select = and scroll over to the gears window, one will have a "R" and one will = have a "D" in the bottom corner. Select the window with "D" and = then a window with port, A, B or C will come up, select the port = you wish to program, (for us A is an arm and B and C are = controlling the wheels). Once you select your port you will = manually push your robot to the desired distance / = location. The degrees will come up on the window and you can key = that into your move block.      If you = select "R" it will give you the # of Rotations needed and if you select = "D" it will give you the degrees needed. We have found the degrees = to be more accurate than the Rotations.  Be sure when = programming the move block to key in "Degrees". We are still = experimenting with this on curve turns and it has not been as = accurate. It has worked well with turns, our arm and straight = shots. If you are traveling backwards the degrees will show on the = screen as " - 720 " you do not key in the "-" = just choose the backwards arrow on your block.
=

I do hope I explained this clearly.  We = are still playing with this new discovery. If I am missing = information or someone can add to this I would = be grateful. I do know it has made our programming go = much faster. One of our team members received the "Lego Mindstorms = NXT Idea Book" and it is awesome. The kids cannot wait until the = off season to plow through these projects.
=

Note on the move block issue. David thank = you I have ordered the upgrade and we are experimenting with = putting some of our written programs into a My block to save space, = is this correct? One student had a question, Could each mission be = programmed and be put into a "My Block", and then put each "My = Block" into one program?  They are working on ways to not have = to spend time at the table scrolling through the brick to find each = mission file. Even when the missions are downloaded to the brick = in order of their runs they still have to scroll to find them.
=

Thank you,

Tracy
=

unIn a message dated 11/29/2008 6:40:41 P.M. = Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
=

Tracy,

We noted your phrase, =93they have learned how to = access the view window and push the robot manually to it's = desired stopping point and then key in the degrees on the move = block.=94 How do you do that?
=

Thank you,
Larry Sides
Madison Menagerie Robotics

=
=
From: First = Lego League Discussion [mailto:VADCFLL-L@kookaburra1= .jmu.edu] On Behalf Of = Tracy Reed
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 = 4:34 = PM
To: = [log in to unmask] U
Subject: Re: = [VADCFLL-L] Limit to move Blocks

David, =

We started = up the NXT ( we have version 1.0) fresh today, after a good rest. and = everything worked fine, it took the block plus several = more!  We did discuss one common factor, this seems to = happen after the robot has been in use for maybe 2 or so hours with = LOTS of programming or changes to a program. Any thoughts? =

The blocks are no longer on = the program for me to attatch, the student took them off when he could = not get them to work. I did look at them and they were simple move = blocks, ports b and c, 75 % power, 2 rotations, brake. The = original block was done in degrees, they have learned how to access = the view window and push the robot manually to = it's desired stopping point and then key in the degrees on the move = block.

Thanks, =

Tracy

In a message = dated 11/26/2008 10:24:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, = [log in to unmask] g writes:

In that case the obvious answer is out of memory = error when downloading
but from what you are saying there is no = such error and it appears to
download just fine. Therefore = I think you are making a assumption that
the block was not = included. There may be physical conditions where =
they block does not appear to run.
Can you you attach your = program?

Also do you want to cc the listserv again since = there are a couple of
others that have chimed = in?

David

[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Hi = David,
> Yes, a team member had 15 blocks and added another and = it would not
> transfer it to the NXT. He also added 4 = identical blocks and they
> would not download.   We = have also had this problem where we would add
> a move forward = mini move it would not pick it up on the NXT so we
> would put = an identical move block in front of it and it would take
> = it? I will be sure the kids are "saving" the new move before =
> downloading. It happens sporadically. There is no = problem dragging
> the move block and having it show up on the = computer screen, it just
> does not always transfer to the brick. We = download and it downloads as
> always (compiling info is up on = the screen and we get the beep when
> finished) There does not = seem to be any rhyme or reason to this, it
> has only happened = with one or two long programs. We reboot everything
> and = keep playing with it and usually it will end up taking it so we go =
> back and delete the "phantom blocks that are identical" and = all is
> well. I was reading up on My blocks = to see if that would help. I
> can't find anywhere in the NXT = book where there are limitations on
> blocks in a = program.
>
> Thanks,
> Tracy
>
> =
> In a message dated 11/26/2008 9:15:18 A.M. Eastern Standard = Time,
> [log in to unmask] g writes:
>
>
>    Hi Tracy,
>    = What do you mean by " it will not take anymore "? Is it = that
>    you can
>    not = drag in another block, save the program, download to the = brick?
>    David
>
>    = Tracy Reed wrote:
>    >
>    = > Hi,
>    > I was wondering if anyone knows what = the # of move blocks a single
>    > program can = use. It seems we are writing programs and when we
> =    get to
>    > approx. 15 blocks it = will not take anymore. Is there a way
>    = around this?
>    >
>    > = Your input is greatly appreciated.
>    > =
>    > Tracy Reed
>    > 4-H = L.E.A.D Huskies
>    >
>    = >
>    >
>    >
> =    >
>    = ------------------------------------------------------------------------>    > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, = your social
>    networks, and
> =    > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has = detected a
>    possible
>    = > fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* = AOL.com
>    >
>    <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1= 200825291/aol?redir=3Dhttp://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp%26icid=3Daolcom40= vanity%26ncid=3Demlcntaolcom00000001>
>
> =    > today!*
>    > = ______________________________________________________________
> =    > = ______________________________________________________________ = To
>    > UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, = please visit
>    > https://listserv= .jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select
> =    "Join or
>    > leave the list". If = you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing
>    = list
>    > - to which FLL administrative = announcements will be distributed -
>    > visit = https://li= stserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and
> =    > select "Join or leave the = list".
>
>
>
>
> = ------------------------------------------------------------------------> *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social = networks, and
> the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner = has detected a possible
> fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" = claiming to be* AOL.com
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1= 200825291/aol?redir=3Dhttp://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp%26icid=3Daolcom40= vanity%26ncid=3Demlcntaolcom00000001>
> = today!*

Life should be easier. So should your homepage. MailScanner has = detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.aol.com" claiming to = be Try the NEW = AOL.com.
_____________________= _________________________________________ = ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv= .jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the = list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which = FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://li= stserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or = leave the list".

Life should be easier. So should your = homepage. MailScanner has = detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.aol.com" claiming to = be Try the NEW AOL.com.
= ______________________________________________________________ = ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv= .jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the = list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which = FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://li= stserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or = leave the list".

= ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". --Apple-Mail-1-649835840-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:51:17 -0500 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: First Lego League Discussion <[log in to unmask]> From: Eric Palmer <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Limit to move Blocks Comments: To: David Levy <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C952EA.570DD900" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C952EA.570DD900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw a robot last year that had all of its runs encapsulated into my blocks and then connected together. If I remember they had two touch sensors. One to repeat the last run and one to advance to the next. Very slick. And the kids were able to explain the programming logic in detail. So I knew they owned it! The wonder of FLL never ceases to amaze me. Eric F. Palmer [log in to unmask] http://VitalJourney.org - Blog _____ From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Levy Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:12 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Limit to move Blocks "David thank you I have ordered the upgrade and we are experimenting with putting some of our written programs into a My block to save space, is this correct? " I'm not sure about that. I'd guess that the only benefit would be reduce screen space. The primary purpose of a my-block is to capture repeatable sequences of a program ( like a sub-routine , function, macro , or class) so they can be defined in one place and easily maintained. As a secondary benefit, there would be a reduction in program size because the space for sequences of blocks housed in a my-block need only be allocated once. There is some decent coverage of this is in the NXT Idea Book that you mentioned. Myblocks are demonstrated In the chapter named " Marty - A Performance Art Robot". For example the My-blocks named "pen-up" and "pen-down" are repeatable sequences. "One student had a question, Could each mission be programmed and be put into a "My Block", and then put each "My Block" into one program? They are working on ways to not have to spend time at the table scrolling through the brick to find each mission file. Even when the missions are downloaded to the brick in order of their runs they still have to scroll to find them." The kids get pretty good at knowing where to find their programs in a hurry so I'd suggest that you only combine two or three programs at a time. Our team does this when missions return to base and don't require additional attachments that delay the robot from being sent out again. This techique was outlined here on the listserv a few weeks ago and should still be in the archive : https://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A1=ind0811 &L=vadcfll-l in a topic named "Moving robot in base while program pauses" "Viewing the rotational count while pushing the robot." Here's an alternative that demonstrates how mathematical formulas learned in school can be applied to the robot: Have the kids use a tape measure on the table to get the desired distance. Then have them measure the circumference of their wheel. ( added bonus if any of the team members knows the formula for the circumference of a circle.) Explain that the vehicle will travel a distance equal to the circumference of the wheel for every 1 rotation of the motor ( this assumes that you are not connecting two or more different sized gears from the motor to the wheel). Here is the formula for calculating the rotational count for your motor block: rotations = desired distance to travel / wheel circumference degrees = rotations * 360 Have fun, David On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Tracy Reed wrote: Larry, Scroll the screen until you find the "view" window. Select and scroll over to the gears window, one will have a "R" and one will have a "D" in the bottom corner. Select the window with "D" and then a window with port, A, B or C will come up, select the port you wish to program, (for us A is an arm and B and C are controlling the wheels). Once you select your port you will manually push your robot to the desired distance / location. The degrees will come up on the window and you can key that into your move block. If you select "R" it will give you the # of Rotations needed and if you select "D" it will give you the degrees needed. We have found the degrees to be more accurate than the Rotations. Be sure when programming the move block to key in "Degrees". We are still experimenting with this on curve turns and it has not been as accurate. It has worked well with turns, our arm and straight shots. If you are traveling backwards the degrees will show on the screen as " - 720 " you do not key in the "-" just choose the backwards arrow on your block. I do hope I explained this clearly. We are still playing with this new discovery. If I am missing information or someone can add to this I would be grateful. I do know it has made our programming go much faster. One of our team members received the "Lego Mindstorms NXT Idea Book" and it is awesome. The kids cannot wait until the off season to plow through these projects. Note on the move block issue. David thank you I have ordered the upgrade and we are experimenting with putting some of our written programs into a My block to save space, is this correct? One student had a question, Could each mission be programmed and be put into a "My Block", and then put each "My Block" into one program? They are working on ways to not have to spend time at the table scrolling through the brick to find each mission file. Even when the missions are downloaded to the brick in order of their runs they still have to scroll to find them. Thank you, Tracy unIn a message dated 11/29/2008 6:40:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: Tracy, We noted your phrase, "they have learned how to access the view window and push the robot manually to it's desired stopping point and then key in the degrees on the move block." How do you do that? Thank you, Larry Sides Madison Menagerie Robotics _____ From: First Lego League Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tracy Reed Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:34 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Limit to move Blocks David, We started up the NXT ( we have version 1.0) fresh today, after a good rest. and everything worked fine, it took the block plus several more! We did discuss one common factor, this seems to happen after the robot has been in use for maybe 2 or so hours with LOTS of programming or changes to a program. Any thoughts? The blocks are no longer on the program for me to attatch, the student took them off when he could not get them to work. I did look at them and they were simple move blocks, ports b and c, 75 % power, 2 rotations, brake. The original block was done in degrees, they have learned how to access the view window and push the robot manually to it's desired stopping point and then key in the degrees on the move block. Thanks, Tracy In a message dated 11/26/2008 10:24:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: In that case the obvious answer is out of memory error when downloading but from what you are saying there is no such error and it appears to download just fine. Therefore I think you are making a assumption that the block was not included. There may be physical conditions where they block does not appear to run. Can you you attach your program? Also do you want to cc the listserv again since there are a couple of others that have chimed in? David [log in to unmask] wrote: > Hi David, > Yes, a team member had 15 blocks and added another and it would not > transfer it to the NXT. He also added 4 identical blocks and they > would not download. We have also had this problem where we would add > a move forward mini move it would not pick it up on the NXT so we > would put an identical move block in front of it and it would take > it? I will be sure the kids are "saving" the new move before > downloading. It happens sporadically. There is no problem dragging > the move block and having it show up on the computer screen, it just > does not always transfer to the brick. We download and it downloads as > always (compiling info is up on the screen and we get the beep when > finished) There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason to this, it > has only happened with one or two long programs. We reboot everything > and keep playing with it and usually it will end up taking it so we go > back and delete the "phantom blocks that are identical" and all is > well. I was reading up on My blocks to see if that would help. I > can't find anywhere in the NXT book where there are limitations on > blocks in a program. > > Thanks, > Tracy > > > In a message dated 11/26/2008 9:15:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [log in to unmask] writes: > > > Hi Tracy, > What do you mean by " it will not take anymore "? Is it that > you can > not drag in another block, save the program, download to the brick? > David > > Tracy Reed wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I was wondering if anyone knows what the # of move blocks a single > > program can use. It seems we are writing programs and when we > get to > > approx. 15 blocks it will not take anymore. Is there a way > around this? > > > > Your input is greatly appreciated. > > > > Tracy Reed > > 4-H L.E.A.D Huskies > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social > networks, and > > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected a > possible > > fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL.com > > > > > > today!* > > ______________________________________________________________ > > ______________________________________________________________ To > > UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit > > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select > "Join or > > leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing > list > > - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - > > visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and > > select "Join or leave the list". > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected a possible > fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* AOL.com > > today!* _____ Life should be easier. So should your homepage. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.aol.com" claiming to be Try the NEW AOL.com. ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". _____ Life should be easier. So should your homepage. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.aol.com" claiming to be Try the NEW AOL.com. ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C952EA.570DD900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I saw a robot last year that had all of its runs = encapsulated into=20 my blocks and then connected together. If I remember they had two touch = sensors.=20 One to repeat the last run and one to advance to the next. Very slick. = And the=20 kids were able to explain the programming logic in detail. So I knew = they owned=20 it!

The wonder of FLL never ceases to amaze = me.

Eric F. Palmer
[log in to unmask]
http://VitalJourney.org -=20 Blog

From: First Lego League Discussion=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David=20 Levy
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:12 PM
To:=20 [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Limit = to move=20 Blocks

"David thank you I have = ordered the=20 upgrade and we are experimenting with putting some of = our written=20 programs into a My block to save space, is this correct? "

I'm not sure about that. I'd guess that = the only=20 benefit would be reduce screen space. The primary = purpose of a=20 my-block is to capture repeatable sequences of a program ( like a = sub-routine ,=20 function, macro , or class) so they can be defined in one place = and easily=20 maintained. As a secondary benefit, there would be a = reduction=20 in program size because the space for sequences of = blocks housed=20 in a my-block need only be allocated once. =

There is some decent coverage of this is in = the NXT Idea=20 Book that you mentioned. Myblocks are demonstrated In the chapter = named "=20 Marty - A Performance Art Robot". For example the My-blocks named = "pen-up"=20 and "pen-down" = are repeatable sequences.

"One student had a = question,=20 Could each mission be programmed and be put into a "My Block", and = then put=20 each "My Block" into one program? They are working on = ways to=20 not have to spend time at the table scrolling through the brick to find = each=20 mission file. Even when the missions are downloaded to the brick = in order=20 of their runs they still have to scroll to find them."

The kids get pretty good at knowing where to = find their=20 programs in a hurry so I'd suggest that you only combine two or three = programs=20 at a time. Our team does this when missions return to base and = don't=20 require additional attachments that delay the robot from being sent out=20 again. This techique was outlined here on the listserv a few weeks = ago and=20 should still be in the archive : https://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A1=3Dind0811&L=3Dvadcfll-l= =20 in a topic named "Moving robot in base while program=20 pauses"

"Viewing the rotational count while = pushing the=20 robot."

Here's an alternative that demonstrates=20 how mathematical formulas learned in school can be applied to = the=20 robot:

Have the kids use a tape measure on the table = to get the=20 desired distance. Then have them measure = the circumference of=20 their wheel. ( added bonus if any of the team members knows the = formula=20 for the circumference of a circle.) Explain that the vehicle will = travel=20 a distance equal to the circumference of the wheel for every 1 = rotation of=20 the motor ( this assumes that you are not connecting two or more = different=20 sized gears from the motor to the wheel).

Here is the formula for calculating the = rotational count=20 for your motor block:

rotations =3D desired distance to travel = / wheel=20 circumference

degrees =3D rotations * = 360

Have fun,

David

On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Tracy Reed wrote:

Larry,

Scroll the screen until you find the "view" window. Select = and=20 scroll over to the gears window, one will have a "R" and one will have = a "D"=20 in the bottom corner. Select the window with "D" and then a = window with=20 port, A, B or C will come up, select the port you wish to = program, (for=20 us A is an arm and B and C are controlling the = wheels). Once=20 you select your port you will manually push your robot to the=20 desired distance / location. The degrees will come up on = the window=20 and you can key that into your move=20 block.      If you select "R" it will = give you=20 the # of Rotations needed and if you select "D" it will give you the = degrees=20 needed. We have found the degrees to be more accurate than the=20 Rotations.  Be sure when programming the move block to key = in=20 "Degrees". We are still experimenting with this on curve turns = and it=20 has not been as accurate. It has worked well with turns, our arm = and=20 straight shots. If you are traveling backwards the degrees will = show on=20 the screen as " - 720 " you do not key in the "-" = just choose=20 the backwards arrow on your block.

I do hope I explained this clearly.  We are still = playing with=20 this new discovery. If I am missing information or=20 someone can add to this I would be grateful. I = do=20 know it has made our programming go much faster. One of our = team=20 members received the "Lego Mindstorms NXT Idea Book" and it is = awesome. =20 The kids cannot wait until the off season to plow through these=20 projects.

Note on the move block issue. David thank you I have = ordered the=20 upgrade and we are experimenting with putting some of = our written=20 programs into a My block to save space, is this correct? One = student had=20 a question, Could each mission be programmed and be put into a = "My=20 Block", and then put each "My Block" into one = program?  They=20 are working on ways to not have to spend time at the table scrolling = through=20 the brick to find each mission file. Even when the missions are=20 downloaded to the brick in order of their runs they still have to = scroll to=20 find them.

Thank you,

Tracy

unIn a message dated 11/29/2008 6:40:41 P.M. Eastern Standard = Time, [log in to unmask] = writes:

Tracy,

We=20 noted your phrase, “they have learned how to access the view=20 window and push the robot manually to it's desired = stopping point=20 and then key in the degrees on the move block.” How do = you do=20 that?

Thank=20 you,

Larry=20 Sides

Madison=20 Menagerie Robotics

From: First=20 Lego League Discussion [mailto:VADCFLL-L@kookaburra= 1.jmu.edu]=20 On Behalf Of Tracy=20 Reed
Sent: = Wednesday,=20 November 26,=20 2008 4:34 = PM
To: = [log in to unmask] DU
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] = Limit to move=20 Blocks

David,=20

We = started up the=20 NXT ( we have version 1.0) fresh today, after a good rest. and = everything=20 worked fine, it took the block plus several more!  We did = discuss=20 one common factor, this seems to happen after the robot has been in = use for=20 maybe 2 or so hours with LOTS of programming or changes to a = program. =20 Any thoughts?

The = blocks are no=20 longer on the program for me to attatch, the student took them off = when he=20 could not get them to work. I did look at them and they were = simple=20 move blocks, ports b and c, 75 % power, 2 rotations, = brake. The=20 original block was done in degrees, they have learned how to access = the view=20 window and push the robot manually to it's = desired=20 stopping point and then key in the degrees on the move=20 block.

Thanks,=20

Tracy

In a = message dated=20 11/26/2008 10:24:12 A.M. Eastern Standard = Time, [log in to unmask] rg=20 writes:

In = that case=20 the obvious answer is out of memory error when downloading =
but=20 from what you are saying there is no such error and it appears to=20
download just fine. Therefore I think you are making a=20 assumption that
the block was not included. There = may be=20 physical conditions where
they block does not appear to run. =
Can=20 you you attach your program?

Also do you want to cc the = listserv=20 again since there are a couple of
others that have chimed=20 in?

David

[log in to unmask] = wrote:
> Hi=20 David,
> Yes, a team member had 15 blocks and added another = and it=20 would not
> transfer it to the NXT. He also added 4 = identical=20 blocks and they
> would not download.   We have = also had=20 this problem where we would add
> a move forward mini move = it would=20 not pick it up on the NXT so we
> would put an identical = move block=20 in front of it and it would take
> it? I will be sure = the=20 kids are "saving" the new move before
> downloading. = It=20 happens sporadically. There is no problem dragging
> the = move block=20 and having it show up on the computer screen, it just
> = does not=20 always transfer to the brick. We download and it downloads as =
>=20 always (compiling info is up on the screen and we get the beep = when=20
> finished) There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason = to this,=20 it
> has only happened with one or two long programs. = We=20 reboot everything
> and keep playing with it and usually it = will=20 end up taking it so we go
> back and delete the "phantom = blocks=20 that are identical" and all is
> well. = I was=20 reading up on My blocks to see if that would help. I
> = can't find=20 anywhere in the NXT book where there are limitations on
> = blocks in=20 a program.
>
> Thanks,
> Tracy
> =20
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2008 9:15:18 A.M. = Eastern=20 Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] rg=20 writes:
>
>
>    Hi Tracy,
> =20    What do you mean by " it will not take anymore = "? =20 Is it that
>    you can
> =    not drag in another block, save the program, download = to the=20 brick?
>    David
>
> =   =20 Tracy Reed wrote:
>    >
> =20    > Hi,
>    > I was = wondering if=20 anyone knows what the # of move blocks a single
> =   =20 > program can use. It seems we are writing programs and = when=20 we
>    get to
>    = >=20 approx. 15 blocks it will not take anymore. Is there a=20 way
>    around this?
> =   =20 >
>    > Your input is greatly=20 appreciated.
>    >
> =   =20 > Tracy Reed
>    > 4-H L.E.A.D = Huskies=20
>    >
>   =20 >
>    >
>   =20 >
>    >
>   =20 = ------------------------------------------------------------------------<= BR>> =20    > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your = social
>    networks, and
> =   =20 > the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has detected=20 a
>    possible
>    = >=20 fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to be* = AOL.com
> =20    >
>    <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962= 939x1200825291/aol?redir=3Dhttp://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp%26icid=3Dao= lcom40vanity%26ncid=3Demlcntaolcom00000001>
>
> =    > today!*
>    >=20 = ______________________________________________________________
>&nb= sp;=20    >=20 ______________________________________________________________=20 To
>    > UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR=20 SUBSCRIPTION, please visit
>    > https://listser= v.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html=20 and select
>    "Join or
> =   =20 > leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L=20 mailing
>    list
>    = > -=20 to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed=20 -
>    > visit https://l= istserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html=20 and
>    > select "Join or leave the=20 list".
>
>
>
>
>=20 = ------------------------------------------------------------------------<= BR>>=20 *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, = and=20
> the things you love. *Try the new *MailScanner has = detected a=20 possible
> fraud attempt from "pr.atwola.com" claiming to = be*=20 AOL.com
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962= 939x1200825291/aol?redir=3Dhttp://www.aol.com/?optin=3Dnew-dp%26icid=3Dao= lcom40vanity%26ncid=3Demlcntaolcom00000001>=20
> today!*

Life=20 should be easier. So should your homepage. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt = from=20 "www.aol.com" claiming to be Try the NEW=20 = AOL.com.

____________________= __________________________________________=20 ______________________________________________________________ To=20 UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listser= v.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html=20 and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the = VADCFLL-ADMIN-L=20 mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be = distributed=20 - visit https://l= istserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html=20 and select "Join or leave the=20 list".

Life should be easier. So should your homepage. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from=20 "www.aol.com" claiming to be Try the NEW=20 = AOL.com.

__________________________________________= ____________________=20 ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE=20 or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listser= v.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html=20 and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the = VADCFLL-ADMIN-L=20 mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be = distributed -=20 visit https://l= istserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html=20 and select "Join or leave the list".=20
__________________________________________________= ____________=20 ______________________________________________________________ To = UNSUBSCRIBE or=20 CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or = leave the=20 list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which = FLL=20 administrative announcements will be distributed - visit=20 https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join = or leave=20 the list". ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". If you want to join the VADCFLL-ADMIN-L mailing list - to which FLL administrative announcements will be distributed - visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-admin-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C952EA.570DD900--