Hmmm... could it be the case that the kids say to the refs- "please remove the ones not in base?" before touching the robot? Brandy On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Stephen Scherr <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > The referees should follow the guidance in Update 25. > > 25 - BACTERIA CLUSTER ENTERING BASE > If a cluster of several objects is entering Base but not all > individuals are in yet, and you touch the robot, Rule 18 Bullet #3, > and Rule 21 together mean the ref should take away the ones that > hadn't made it to Base yet (correct, but REALLY?) In practice though, > it's tough to win an argument about which ones were in or out, so > referees usually either treat the cluster as a single object, (nice, > but incorrect), or they stretch the Benefit-Of-The-Doubt rule too much > (nice, but sloppy, and inconsistent). This needs to be repaired in > the Rules, but here's your exception for now: When the robot is > moving a continuous cluster of bacteria into Base, they are to be > treated as one object. As soon as the first is in, they're all in. > Two separate clusters are assessed separately, and fish, rats, pizza, > and ice cream will still also be assessed individually. > > I haven't seen your container, but I would say that it is likely that > it is all in in your scenario. > > Steve > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:26 AM, B Bergenstock <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > OK- a scenario from my team. Occasionally the robot does not make a turn > > back as far as it is programed to go, but it usually hits the bacteria > tray > > on its way back to base (the one closest to the base near the yellow > ball), > > then almost always spins itself into the base. The container the kids > used > > to catch the bacteria is half in and half out of base, which means not > all > > the bacteria are in base when they need to retrieve it. > > Would all those bacterium get taken out, or some? Just wondering so I > can > > tell the kids what to expect (most of the time) from the judges when that > > happens. > > Brandy > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:43 AM, VA/DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask] > > > > wrote: > >> > >> Sonya, that is correct. If the item hasn't crossed into Base, and it > >> came from out in the field (the robot didn't bring it out of Base when > >> it left), then the item would be taken out of play by the referee when > >> the robot was touched. > >> > >> Steve > >> > >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Sonya Shaver <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> > Thanks, Steve! So, if the robot has an attachment on it that has > >> > grabbed > >> > something, and then comes back to base, and the robot is all the way > >> > back in > >> > base, but has an attachment still dangling out of base that has the > item > >> > attached to it, then they could lose the item if the touch the robot? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:45 PM, VA/DC Referee Advisor < > [log in to unmask]> > >> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Rule 18 tells what happens when you touch the robot or its cargo. It > >> >> includes a Warning: "Avoid touching a robot entering Base until its > >> >> cargo has also reached Base!" > >> >> > >> >> The bottom line is that the team will usually not want to touch the > >> >> robot or its cargo until the robot itself and each of its cargo items > >> >> have crossed into Base. > >> >> > >> >> The position of each item is determined independently (Rule 21) and > >> >> cargo that has not crossed into Base may be lost (Rule 18). > >> >> > >> >> There are also several Robot Game Updates that give more details on > >> >> specific cases: > >> >> Update 24, Multi-part models, tells us that the yellow farm truck and > >> >> its contents are treated as a single object--if one is in Base, then > >> >> all are in Base. Similarly the white refrigerated trailer and its > >> >> contents are treated as a single object for entering Base. > >> >> Update 25, Bacteria Cluster Entering Base, tells us that distinct > >> >> continuous clusters of bacteria will be treated as one object for > >> >> purposes of entering Base. It also reminds us that this doesn't > apply > >> >> to other mission models. > >> >> > >> >> Update 30, from this week, doesn't talk about Base, but it does give > >> >> some examples about when a mission model is cargo. > >> >> > >> >> Steve Scherr > >> >> VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor > >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Sonya Shaver <[log in to unmask]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > Hello, > >> >> > Can I ask a question to clarify when you can touch the robot when > it > >> >> > returns > >> >> > to base in between programs? > >> >> > In past years, the team could grab the robot as soon as a portion > of > >> >> > the > >> >> > robot had clearly entered base. But I think I read something in a > >> >> > question > >> >> > on this list about cargo needing to be in base too. So, can you > >> >> > clarify > >> >> > about that? For example, if the robot has an attachment that has > >> >> > grabbed > >> >> > some item off the table to bring it back to base, then when the > robot > >> >> > comes > >> >> > back to base, once a part of the robot has clearly entered base, > can > >> >> > the > >> >> > team member still grab the robot? Even if the cargo is still out > of > >> >> > base, > >> >> > but is attached to the attachment on the robot? Am I being clear? > >> >> > Thanks, > >> >> > Sonya in Harrisonburg > >> >> > ________________________________ > >> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit > >> >> > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join > or > >> >> > leave > >> >> > the list". > >> >> > VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via > >> >> > VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. > >> >> > Visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html > >> >> > to > >> >> > subscribe. > >> >> > >> >> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit > >> >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or > >> >> leave > >> >> the list". > >> >> > >> >> -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via > >> >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. 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