My standard answer is "the team can ASK, but the referee can't do it, since the rules don't allow it...." Rule 19: • Anything done to your field outside Base by your legally active ROBOT stays that way, unless the ROBOT changes it. • Objects moved are not replaced or moved out of the way by hand. Steve On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:44 AM, B Bergenstock <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Hmmm... could it be the case that the kids say to the refs- "please remove > the ones not in base?" before touching the robot? > Brandy > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Stephen Scherr <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> The referees should follow the guidance in Update 25. >> >> 25 - BACTERIA CLUSTER ENTERING BASE >> If a cluster of several objects is entering Base but not all >> individuals are in yet, and you touch the robot, Rule 18 Bullet #3, >> and Rule 21 together mean the ref should take away the ones that >> hadn't made it to Base yet (correct, but REALLY?) In practice though, >> it's tough to win an argument about which ones were in or out, so >> referees usually either treat the cluster as a single object, (nice, >> but incorrect), or they stretch the Benefit-Of-The-Doubt rule too much >> (nice, but sloppy, and inconsistent). This needs to be repaired in >> the Rules, but here's your exception for now: When the robot is >> moving a continuous cluster of bacteria into Base, they are to be >> treated as one object. As soon as the first is in, they're all in. >> Two separate clusters are assessed separately, and fish, rats, pizza, >> and ice cream will still also be assessed individually. >> >> I haven't seen your container, but I would say that it is likely that >> it is all in in your scenario. >> >> Steve >> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:26 AM, B Bergenstock <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> > OK- a scenario from my team. Occasionally the robot does not make a >> > turn >> > back as far as it is programed to go, but it usually hits the bacteria >> > tray >> > on its way back to base (the one closest to the base near the yellow >> > ball), >> > then almost always spins itself into the base. The container the kids >> > used >> > to catch the bacteria is half in and half out of base, which means not >> > all >> > the bacteria are in base when they need to retrieve it. >> > Would all those bacterium get taken out, or some? Just wondering so I >> > can >> > tell the kids what to expect (most of the time) from the judges when >> > that >> > happens. >> > Brandy >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:43 AM, VA/DC Referee Advisor >> > <[log in to unmask]> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Sonya, that is correct. If the item hasn't crossed into Base, and it >> >> came from out in the field (the robot didn't bring it out of Base when >> >> it left), then the item would be taken out of play by the referee when >> >> the robot was touched. >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Sonya Shaver <[log in to unmask]> >> >> wrote: >> >> > Thanks, Steve! So, if the robot has an attachment on it that has >> >> > grabbed >> >> > something, and then comes back to base, and the robot is all the way >> >> > back in >> >> > base, but has an attachment still dangling out of base that has the >> >> > item >> >> > attached to it, then they could lose the item if the touch the robot? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:45 PM, VA/DC Referee Advisor >> >> > <[log in to unmask]> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Rule 18 tells what happens when you touch the robot or its cargo. >> >> >> It >> >> >> includes a Warning: "Avoid touching a robot entering Base until its >> >> >> cargo has also reached Base!" >> >> >> >> >> >> The bottom line is that the team will usually not want to touch the >> >> >> robot or its cargo until the robot itself and each of its cargo >> >> >> items >> >> >> have crossed into Base. >> >> >> >> >> >> The position of each item is determined independently (Rule 21) and >> >> >> cargo that has not crossed into Base may be lost (Rule 18). >> >> >> >> >> >> There are also several Robot Game Updates that give more details on >> >> >> specific cases: >> >> >> Update 24, Multi-part models, tells us that the yellow farm truck >> >> >> and >> >> >> its contents are treated as a single object--if one is in Base, then >> >> >> all are in Base. Similarly the white refrigerated trailer and its >> >> >> contents are treated as a single object for entering Base. >> >> >> Update 25, Bacteria Cluster Entering Base, tells us that distinct >> >> >> continuous clusters of bacteria will be treated as one object for >> >> >> purposes of entering Base. It also reminds us that this doesn't >> >> >> apply >> >> >> to other mission models. >> >> >> >> >> >> Update 30, from this week, doesn't talk about Base, but it does give >> >> >> some examples about when a mission model is cargo. >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Scherr >> >> >> VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Sonya Shaver <[log in to unmask]> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > Hello, >> >> >> > Can I ask a question to clarify when you can touch the robot when >> >> >> > it >> >> >> > returns >> >> >> > to base in between programs? >> >> >> > In past years, the team could grab the robot as soon as a portion >> >> >> > of >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > robot had clearly entered base. But I think I read something in a >> >> >> > question >> >> >> > on this list about cargo needing to be in base too. So, can you >> >> >> > clarify >> >> >> > about that? For example, if the robot has an attachment that has >> >> >> > grabbed >> >> >> > some item off the table to bring it back to base, then when the >> >> >> > robot >> >> >> > comes >> >> >> > back to base, once a part of the robot has clearly entered base, >> >> >> > can >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > team member still grab the robot? Even if the cargo is still out >> >> >> > of >> >> >> > base, >> >> >> > but is attached to the attachment on the robot? Am I being clear? >> >> >> > Thanks, >> >> >> > Sonya in Harrisonburg >> >> >> > ________________________________ >> >> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> >> >> > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join >> >> >> > or >> >> >> > leave >> >> >> > the list". >> >> >> > VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> >> >> > VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. >> >> >> > Visit >> >> >> > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html >> >> >> > to >> >> >> > subscribe. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> >> >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >> >> >> leave >> >> >> the list". >> >> >> >> >> >> -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> >> >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. 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