I'm blushing. I'm not even close to the same league as Karen and Dominick. They set a high bar. Thanks for the kind words about my note/essay. Eric On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 2:25 PM, B Bergenstock <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > I totally agree- this needs to send over to FIRST. What a touching > email! > And to send out some behind the scene thanks- Thank-you to Karen for > organizing the tournaments in my area. What I do as a coach is great and > personally touches the lives of my kids, but none of it would be possible > with out people like Karen, Eric and Dominick! A big thank-you to you > organizers :) These stories belong to you too! > Regards, > Brandy > > > On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Haydee Cooper <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > >> Wow, Eric, that is one amazing e-mail/essay! >> I seriously think somebody from First should put it up on their website. >> >> Haydee >> >> *From:* Eric Palmer <[log in to unmask]> >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:50 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [VADCFLL-L] Parent Involvement/Expectations Contract >> Sample? >> >> Great question. This is very personal for me. I have cried, yelled and >> screamed, and ranted in front of my family (never in front of the kids, >> other than the crying part), and swore that I would quit FIRST. But…… >> I’ve notice that with all volunteer activities for parents that maybe 15% >> commit 95% of the time and effort involved. This is a fact of life and is >> unfortunate but is not likely to change much. >> Each coach has to make his or her own determination about invested time >> and return on that investment. >> >> For a little history >> - coached FLL first time in 2006 and had 6,7 and 8th graders (my oldest >> was a 8th grader) >> - coached my youngest again in 2009, 2010 and 2011 >> >> I've had the privileged to observe and in some cases work with, team >> members from past teams and I do run into many of them and their parents >> routinely. Feedback is uniform and always amazingly positive about the >> outcomes. FIRST changes lives for the better. >> >> Most of the team members I have kept up with are outstanding young >> people, and many personally thank me, as do their parents, for the >> experience on FLL. I have seen some of these kids grow up to and go to >> college. Others are seniors in HS this year and as well last year's team is >> 7th, 8th and 9th graders. >> >> My own assessment (and that of their parents) is these kids are much >> better off having been on FLL teams. I will tell you I and my assistant >> coaches worked on core values, teamwork, decision-making, critical thinking >> and other related skills a lot. I count that effort as having a big impact >> on the maturity of the kids. >> >> So what does this have to do with parent involvement? Again, my opinion >> only! Parent involvement matters less than being an aware coach and being >> active in molding the kids. Good parent involvement does make the time >> commitment a little less for the coaches. >> >> Honestly if I had know how much work there was in coaching and how >> difficult parents can be, I would not have coached my first team. Going in >> naive was good for me. When I was done with the season I knew I would stay >> involved. I had to wait for my youngest to age up some but I knew. But >> first after each season was over I told my family I was done with coaching. >> That lasted about two weeks till I had the sense that my time was little >> cost compared to the maturation of the kids. >> >> I've had parents that were perfect, parents that I never saw, and ones in >> which I wish I would never see at meetings or anywhere (and had to ask them >> to not be so involved). I even had one parent that I only saw at the >> regional tournament. He came up afterwards and said matter-of-factly “I >> wouldn’t have been so negative if I had known what this was really like and >> how good it is for my son?" All I can say about that to myself was “Duh!” >> >> After the first year I did get to where we had frank conversations before >> season with each parent. We talked about parent involvement needs, >> commitment on the team, and what other activities that each kid was >> committed to during season. I used a contract, but that was more about the >> commitment of the kids and not the parents and as well was about the team >> fee. I even turned away a few for lack of commitment. Not sure it >> mattered because parent commitment varied anyway. >> >> Some of my difficult kids and parents have resulted in: >> >> - a shy quiet young man, when asked what was the best part of the season >> "I found my voice" >> >> - My most difficult first team member: ran into him at a FLL tournament >> when he as a senior in HS. He came up and hugged me and said with tears >> streaming down his 6’3” frame: "I just wrote an essay on the topic of the >> person who has made the most difference in my life and that was about >> you'. He is now in college after having a successful HS career. >> >> - My youngest first team members are seniors in HS and are >> captains of the FRC high school robotics team and are model young men. >> >> I could go on and list out a lot more. All of this is worth it. I >> haven’t even mentioned the benefits to my two girls. >> >> And now that I’m done coaching, I am glad it is over because it was a lot >> of effort. But I would not trade it for anything. And yes I'm still >> involved. I judge and help to organize a FLL tournament. And I have moved >> my time commitments to FRC (the big robots) for a HS team and as a >> tournament volunteer. I recruit others to FLL actively and I occasionally >> take a new coach under my wings to guide them through the difficult process >> of coaching. >> >> So please don't let difficult parents stop you from continuing on with >> coaching. FIRST robotics changes lives in so many ways. And if you are >> done, please keep FIRST going strong. Volunteer and recruit and judge. >> Eric Palmer >> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Lori Hand <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> That is a really good question. I was lucky to have 2 assistant coaches >> who >> helped a lot. Yet still there is so much planning,coordinating to be >> done. I >> am completely DONE for a while. Half the parents did not help at all. I >> am >> not sure they said thank you. >> In my sheet, I requested the parents to volunteer for 1week of meetings. >> 8 >> weeks, 8 meetings I was thinking. Yet half the team's parents did not, >> even >> with repeated emails , volunteer for anything. I can not lie, the next >> time >> I pick a team, the amount of help a parent gives will matter, if we I do >> it >> again. >> >> One way to know, is to organize a club / or other meetings to get a feel >> of >> which kids /parents work out the best. FLL is an all volunteer effort >> and I >> feel that many parents do not help out at all. Oddly enough, these >> parents >> are also the ones who complain the most. So my thought is this - >> make your time a complete "Gift" of time and since your child is in it, >> count it as your time to help your child and live with whatever the >> parents >> have to offer. >> Or select a team that includes consideration of how much others can >> contribute and make it a prerequisite with a failure to do clause. >> At our coop preschool, if you do not coop, its $30 per class. A fee gets >> involvement fast ,generally speaking. I KNOW its not about the $, but for >> many that will give you the kids /parents that are serious. A parent >> won't >> sign up if they can't help. >> >> The down side is that a great kid might get left out. >> >> Coach Robotic Ninjas >> Glen Allen VA >> >> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >> leave the list". >> >> -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html to >> subscribe. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> About Me <http://about.me/ericpalmer> >> http://www.thingiverse.com/DaddyOh >> Join the 3DPrinter Revolution >> http://makerbot.com/ >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >> leave the list". >> VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to >> subscribe. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >> leave the list". >> VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to >> subscribe. >> > > ------------------------------ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. > Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to > subscribe. > -- About Me <http://about.me/ericpalmer> http://www.thingiverse.com/DaddyOh Join the 3DPrinter Revolution http://makerbot.com On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 2:25 PM, B Bergenstock <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > I totally agree- this needs to send over to FIRST. What a touching > email! > And to send out some behind the scene thanks- Thank-you to Karen for > organizing the tournaments in my area. What I do as a coach is great and > personally touches the lives of my kids, but none of it would be possible > with out people like Karen, Eric and Dominick! A big thank-you to you > organizers :) These stories belong to you too! > Regards, > Brandy > > > On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Haydee Cooper <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > >> Wow, Eric, that is one amazing e-mail/essay! >> I seriously think somebody from First should put it up on their website. >> >> Haydee >> >> *From:* Eric Palmer <[log in to unmask]> >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:50 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [VADCFLL-L] Parent Involvement/Expectations Contract >> Sample? >> >> Great question. This is very personal for me. I have cried, yelled and >> screamed, and ranted in front of my family (never in front of the kids, >> other than the crying part), and swore that I would quit FIRST. But…… >> I’ve notice that with all volunteer activities for parents that maybe 15% >> commit 95% of the time and effort involved. This is a fact of life and is >> unfortunate but is not likely to change much. >> Each coach has to make his or her own determination about invested time >> and return on that investment. >> >> For a little history >> - coached FLL first time in 2006 and had 6,7 and 8th graders (my oldest >> was a 8th grader) >> - coached my youngest again in 2009, 2010 and 2011 >> >> I've had the privileged to observe and in some cases work with, team >> members from past teams and I do run into many of them and their parents >> routinely. Feedback is uniform and always amazingly positive about the >> outcomes. FIRST changes lives for the better. >> >> Most of the team members I have kept up with are outstanding young >> people, and many personally thank me, as do their parents, for the >> experience on FLL. I have seen some of these kids grow up to and go to >> college. Others are seniors in HS this year and as well last year's team is >> 7th, 8th and 9th graders. >> >> My own assessment (and that of their parents) is these kids are much >> better off having been on FLL teams. I will tell you I and my assistant >> coaches worked on core values, teamwork, decision-making, critical thinking >> and other related skills a lot. I count that effort as having a big impact >> on the maturity of the kids. >> >> So what does this have to do with parent involvement? Again, my opinion >> only! Parent involvement matters less than being an aware coach and being >> active in molding the kids. Good parent involvement does make the time >> commitment a little less for the coaches. >> >> Honestly if I had know how much work there was in coaching and how >> difficult parents can be, I would not have coached my first team. Going in >> naive was good for me. When I was done with the season I knew I would stay >> involved. I had to wait for my youngest to age up some but I knew. But >> first after each season was over I told my family I was done with coaching. >> That lasted about two weeks till I had the sense that my time was little >> cost compared to the maturation of the kids. >> >> I've had parents that were perfect, parents that I never saw, and ones in >> which I wish I would never see at meetings or anywhere (and had to ask them >> to not be so involved). I even had one parent that I only saw at the >> regional tournament. He came up afterwards and said matter-of-factly “I >> wouldn’t have been so negative if I had known what this was really like and >> how good it is for my son?" All I can say about that to myself was “Duh!” >> >> After the first year I did get to where we had frank conversations before >> season with each parent. We talked about parent involvement needs, >> commitment on the team, and what other activities that each kid was >> committed to during season. I used a contract, but that was more about the >> commitment of the kids and not the parents and as well was about the team >> fee. I even turned away a few for lack of commitment. Not sure it >> mattered because parent commitment varied anyway. >> >> Some of my difficult kids and parents have resulted in: >> >> - a shy quiet young man, when asked what was the best part of the season >> "I found my voice" >> >> - My most difficult first team member: ran into him at a FLL tournament >> when he as a senior in HS. He came up and hugged me and said with tears >> streaming down his 6’3” frame: "I just wrote an essay on the topic of the >> person who has made the most difference in my life and that was about >> you'. He is now in college after having a successful HS career. >> >> - My youngest first team members are seniors in HS and are >> captains of the FRC high school robotics team and are model young men. >> >> I could go on and list out a lot more. All of this is worth it. I >> haven’t even mentioned the benefits to my two girls. >> >> And now that I’m done coaching, I am glad it is over because it was a lot >> of effort. But I would not trade it for anything. And yes I'm still >> involved. I judge and help to organize a FLL tournament. And I have moved >> my time commitments to FRC (the big robots) for a HS team and as a >> tournament volunteer. I recruit others to FLL actively and I occasionally >> take a new coach under my wings to guide them through the difficult process >> of coaching. >> >> So please don't let difficult parents stop you from continuing on with >> coaching. FIRST robotics changes lives in so many ways. And if you are >> done, please keep FIRST going strong. Volunteer and recruit and judge. >> Eric Palmer >> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Lori Hand <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> That is a really good question. I was lucky to have 2 assistant coaches >> who >> helped a lot. Yet still there is so much planning,coordinating to be >> done. I >> am completely DONE for a while. Half the parents did not help at all. I >> am >> not sure they said thank you. >> In my sheet, I requested the parents to volunteer for 1week of meetings. >> 8 >> weeks, 8 meetings I was thinking. Yet half the team's parents did not, >> even >> with repeated emails , volunteer for anything. I can not lie, the next >> time >> I pick a team, the amount of help a parent gives will matter, if we I do >> it >> again. >> >> One way to know, is to organize a club / or other meetings to get a feel >> of >> which kids /parents work out the best. FLL is an all volunteer effort >> and I >> feel that many parents do not help out at all. Oddly enough, these >> parents >> are also the ones who complain the most. So my thought is this - >> make your time a complete "Gift" of time and since your child is in it, >> count it as your time to help your child and live with whatever the >> parents >> have to offer. >> Or select a team that includes consideration of how much others can >> contribute and make it a prerequisite with a failure to do clause. >> At our coop preschool, if you do not coop, its $30 per class. A fee gets >> involvement fast ,generally speaking. I KNOW its not about the $, but for >> many that will give you the kids /parents that are serious. A parent >> won't >> sign up if they can't help. >> >> The down side is that a great kid might get left out. >> >> Coach Robotic Ninjas >> Glen Allen VA >> >> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >> leave the list". >> >> -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html to >> subscribe. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> About Me <http://about.me/ericpalmer> >> http://www.thingiverse.com/DaddyOh >> Join the 3DPrinter Revolution >> http://makerbot.com/ >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >> leave the list". >> VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to >> subscribe. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >> leave the list". >> VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to >> subscribe. >> > > ------------------------------ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. > Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to > subscribe. > -- About Me <http://about.me/ericpalmer> http://www.thingiverse.com/DaddyOh Join the 3DPrinter Revolution http://makerbot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html to subscribe.