your comment > Referees will use the definition of "in" to evaluate whether any tiny bit of the robot is "in" the area east of the colored line. If so, then the robot will not have crossed completely over the line. Contact with the mat is not important for "in". (That's important for "touching". ) confuses me as "in" is not part of the scoring criteria. The only criteria mentioned is that the robot must have "crossed completely over the west line of the noted region, from the west only" (well, the update also requires that all contact with the mat be south of the northern edge of the obstacles). Being "in" an area east of the line is irrelevant to scoring the obstacle mission. I read all this to mean that "in" is not the operative word for the obstacles mission (it's not used in the obstacle rules or updates) - its important only that the robot has "completely crossed over the west line of the noted region"). The pictures in the rules indicate that if even wires extend over the line to the west, it has not "completely crossed over". For the OP's question, that would mean that if the robot has completely cleared the west line of the purple region and is half way between the Purple region and the red region, it would score 23 points for the purple zone, but would not get any points for the red obstacle region. Am I also correct that if a robot crossed "completely over the line" into the purple region and then got totally confused and went back over the obstacle to the west - it would still score the 23 points? I do have one where I'm not so sure on scoring - does the team get awarded points for EACH region or only for the farthest one reached? (i.e. if totally over the western purple line, it would get 10+16+23=49 points or just 23 for the purple region? Brian On Sep 19, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Stephen Scherr wrote: > The Obstacles mission is hard--that's one reason that teams get multiple tries to accomplish it. > > The key is Rule 37--In. "In" has a very specific meaning for FLL > Red is "in," "into," or has "reached" Blue if any bit of Red is directly over or under Blue > To be "in" an area is to penetrate the volume over that area. > Barely "in" is considered "in" unless "completely "in" is required. > Red can be "in" Blue without touching Blue.. > "Outside" is the opposite of "in" and means completely out. > I tell teams that a robot is "in" Base when a single molecule of the robot is "in" Base. The same applies here. The word "completely" means that every single molecule satisfies the scoring condition. > > Referees will use the definition of "in" to evaluate whether any tiny bit of the robot is "in" the area east of the colored line. If so, then the robot will not have crossed completely over the line. Contact with the mat is not important for "in". (That's important for "touching". ) > > For your last case, "all of the robot" is defined--it is every bit of the robot. But the scoring condition does not require the robot to be "completely in" the colored scoring region--it only requires that all of the robot has "crossed completely over" the line (from the west). > > [If that hint is too vague, look at Game Update 11--some parts of the robot don't have to be "in" the scoring region for the robot to earn points.] > > Steve Scherr > > VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor > > > On Thursday, September 19, 2013, Tom Hafer wrote: > > Hey Steve – > > > > The obstacles challenge – the rule says The robot has crossed completely over the west line of the noted region, from the west only. I think this needs some discussion. The robot often gets a bit skewed when crossing the obstacles, so what does completely crossed over mean? Specifically, what if some portion of the robot not in contact with the mat is outside the colored zones? Next case, what if one of the tracks / wheels does not cross the obstacle or half of the wheel crosses but the other half is out. Last case, once the robot has crossed the line, what portion of the robot has to be inside the zone: all of it (how defined?), the part in contact with the mat, or just some of it? > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". > VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to subscribe. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html to subscribe.