For the Obstacles mission, the answer is: a) Everything, including its entire vertical footprint, must be EAST of the WEST boundary line. Steve On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:37 PM, Tom Hafer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > My question concerns the crossing of the line**** > > ** ** > > What part of the robot must cross a given line:**** > > ** ** > > 1. everything including its entire vertical footprint**** > > ** ** > > 1. the entirety of the contact elements, ie the wheels / tracks**** > > ** ** > > 1. part of the contact elements, eg 1 wheel and half of the other**** > > ** ** > > 1. any wheel**** > > ** ** > > 1. something else**** > > ** ** > > and the same questions regarding the rear wheels if present**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* First Lego League in Virginia and DC [mailto: > [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *VA/DC Referee Advisor > *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:05 PM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > > *Subject:* Re: [VADCFLL-L] Obstacle Damage > **** > > ** ** > > Question: When does a robot earn credit for entering one of the Obstacle > mission scoring regions?**** > > ** ** > > Answer:**** > > In order for the robot to earn points on the Obstacles mission, the > robot must have "crossed completely over the west line of the scoring > region, from the west only."**** > > ** ** > > Per Rule 3, bullet 1, we must take this text literally whenever possible. > **** > > ** ** > > The literal meaning is: To earn points for entering an obstacle scoring > region, there must be a moment when no part of the robot is east of the > west boundary line of the scoring region (and all the other constraints > apply, as described in the mission and Update 11). ******* > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Question: If the robot has completely cleared the west line of the purple > region and is half way between the Purple region and the red region, what > has it earned (for this attempt)? **** > > ** ** > > Answer: Correct. The robot would be credited for having reached the > purple scoring region, but would would not get credit (for this attempt) > for reaching the red scoring region.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Question: If a robot crossed "completely over the line" into the purple > region and then got totally confused and went back over the obstacle to the > west, would it still be credited for having reached the purple region?**** > > ** ** > > Answer: Yes. "Points given are permanent** even if the robot later > leaves .... the region."**** > > ** ** > > > Question: Is the robot's score for the Obstacles mission the sum of the > point values for each region it entered?**** > > ** ** > > Answer: No. "Points are given only for the best result achieved."**** > > This means that, when earned, the points for entering the Dark Green > region replace the points for entering the Dark Blue region, etc. etc. and > the points for entering the Red region replace the points for entering the > Purple region.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Steve Scherr**** > > VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor**** > > ** ** > > Notes:**** > > ** The points are only "permanent" until they are replaced by better > points for the mission.**** > > ** ** > > *** "No part of the robot is east of the west boundary line" -- In FLL > terms, that means that the robot is "completely out" of the area east of > the line. In other words, during an Obstacles mission attempt, as long as > the robot is still "in" the area east of the west boundary line, then it > has not "crossed completely over" the line. **** > > ** ** > > I agree that the "completely crossed over" scoring condition isn't "being > in the area east of the line." But it's equivalent to "not being in the > area east of the line," and that's how we'll check for when the scoring > conditions are satisfied.**** > > ** ** > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Brian Hardy <[log in to unmask]> > wrote:**** > > your comment **** > > Referees will use the definition of "in" to evaluate whether any tiny > bit of the robot is "in" the area east of the colored line. If so, then > the robot will not have crossed completely over the line. Contact with the > mat is not important for "in". (That's important for "touching". )**** > > confuses me as "in" is not part of the scoring criteria. The only > criteria mentioned is that the robot must have "crossed completely over > the west line of the noted region, from the west only" (well, the update > also requires that all contact with the mat be south of the northern edge > of the obstacles). Being "in" an area east of the line is irrelevant to > scoring the obstacle mission. **** > > ** ** > > I read all this to mean that "in" is not the operative word for the > obstacles mission (it's not used in the obstacle rules or updates) - its > important only that the robot has "completely crossed over the west line of > the noted region"). The pictures in the rules indicate that if even wires > extend over the line to the west, it has not "completely crossed over". ** > ** > > ** ** > > For the OP's question, that would mean that if the robot has completely > cleared the west line of the purple region and is half way between the > Purple region and the red region, it would score 23 points for the purple > zone, but would not get any points for the red obstacle region.**** > > ** ** > > Am I also correct that if a robot crossed "completely over the line" into > the purple region and then got totally confused and went back over the > obstacle to the west - it would still score the 23 points?**** > > ** ** > > I do have one where I'm not so sure on scoring - does the team get awarded > points for EACH region or only for the farthest one reached? (i.e. if > totally over the western purple line, it would get 10+16+23=49 points or > just 23 for the purple region?**** > > ** ** > > Brian**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On Sep 19, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Stephen Scherr wrote:**** > > ** ** > > The Obstacles mission is hard--that's one reason that teams get > multiple tries to accomplish it.**** > > **** > > The key is Rule 37--In. "In" has a very specific meaning for FLL**** > > - Red is "in," "into," or has "reached" Blue if any bit of Red is > directly over or under Blue **** > - To be "in" an area is to penetrate the volume over that area. **** > - Barely "in" is considered "in" unless "completely "in" is required.** > ** > - Red can be "in" Blue without touching Blue..**** > - "Outside" is the opposite of "in" and means completely out. **** > > I tell teams that a robot is "in" Base when a single molecule of the > robot is "in" Base. The same applies here. The word "completely" means > that every single molecule satisfies the scoring condition.**** > > **** > > Referees will use the definition of "in" to evaluate whether any tiny bit > of the robot is "in" the area east of the colored line. If so, then the > robot will not have crossed completely over the line. Contact with the mat > is not important for "in". (That's important for "touching". )**** > > **** > > For your last case, "all of the robot" is defined--it is every bit of the > robot. But the scoring condition does not require the robot to be > "completely in" the colored scoring region--it only requires that all of > the robot has "crossed completely over" the line (from the west).**** > > **** > > [If that hint is too vague, look at Game Update 11--some parts of the > robot don't have to be "in" the scoring region for the robot to earn > points.]**** > > **** > > Steve Scherr**** > > VA/DC FLL Referee Advisor**** > > **** > > On Thursday, September 19, 2013, Tom Hafer wrote:**** > > **** > > Hey Steve –**** > > ** ** > > **** > > The obstacles challenge – the rule says The robot has crossed > completely over the west line of the noted region, from the west only. I > think this needs some discussion. The robot often gets a bit skewed when > crossing the obstacles, so what does completely crossed over mean? > Specifically, what if some portion of the robot not in contact with the mat > is outside the colored zones? Next case, what if one of the tracks / wheels > does not cross the obstacle or half of the wheel crosses but the other half > is out. Last case, once the robot has crossed the line, what portion of the > robot has to be inside the zone: all of it (how defined?), the part in > contact with the mat, or just some of it? **** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. > Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to > subscribe. **** > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html to subscribe.