If I'm understanding what they're getting at, I think they might want to take the 'idea' model back to base and then on a future mission re-deploy it onto the table face-up for maximum points. I think that would be a legal way to do it. Not sure if the time/effort required to pull that off is worth it, but that's for the kids to decide :) -Frank On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Darlene Pantaleo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Steve, I want to add here that while the idea can be moved to base, it > cannot be stored or flipped if they want the points for removing it. The > light bulb must be showing at the end of the match. > > In essence, is it a good idea to move it to base where it could > conceivably be in the robot's way? > > Darlene > > > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:49 AM, VA-DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > To tell the truth, I wasn't planning to watch the video until this > weekend. Why? Because it's only some highlights of the missions, and > doesn't have the details of the game that teams will need to know. Robot > Bill noted the reference to that in the rules. > > The FLL Robot Game is like other games--there are things that your team is > allowed to do, that may have consequences that your team doesn't like. For > example, when playing soccer (in real life!), a team *can* kick the ball > out of bounds, but they may not *want* to kick the ball out of bounds, > because then the other team gets to control the ball. > > In this year's Robot Game, your robot *can* bring the box to Base. That > is allowed; there is no rule against it. Your team probably doesn't *want* > to bring the box to Base, because then they won't get any points for the > Thinking Outside the Box mission. > > So let's take a look at the details of the team's question. > - In the Missions document, the mission description talks about two > objects-- the "box model" and the "idea model". > > - The Field Setup document talks about the "box" and the "slab". This > could be confusing, but we use the picture in the mission description to > recognize that the "idea model" is the "slab" that has the "light bulb" > image on it. > > - The mission text describes the "box model" and the "idea model" as two > separate, independent objects, even though the Field Setup has one of them > start inside the other. > > - The mission text has the constraint that the "box model" must never be > in Base, in order to get points for the mission. > > Does this constraint also mean that the "ideal model" has to stay out of > Base to earn points for the mission? > - Rule 2: There are no hidden requirements or restrictions. If you’ve > read everything, then you know everything. > - Rule 2: Robot game text means exactly and only what it says, so take > it literally whenever possible. > - So, since the mission only says "box model", then it only means "box > model" and the constraint doesn't apply to the "idea model". > > The team asked if they could bring the "idea model" to Base. Yes, that > is allowed by the Rules. Are there any consequences that they don't like? > Not for the Thinking Outside the Box mission. If the "idea model" is in > Base during the match, and the "box model" is never in Base during the > match, then the team can earn the points for that mission. > > > Everyone will see in our future discussions that we'll look at what > happens to individual objects separately (especially see Rule 27, "In"), > and that is the distinction that we are making here. > > Steve Scherr > VA-DC FLL Referee Advisor > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 6:52 AM, Parvathy Krishnan <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> I thought the video said you cannot bring the box to the base. Am I >> mistaken? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 29, 2014, at 12:49 AM, VA-DC Referee Advisor <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> This is a great question to kick of the World Class season! It gives a >> chance to demonstrate how to use the Robot Game materials. >> >> The first thing to know is that the rules and the game change from year >> to year. If something was true in a past season, that should only give >> your team a hint to look for it in this year's game....! >> >> In the World Class Rules, Information category, Rule 5, >> Precedence/Authority tells us that: >> >> You get information about the robot game from more than one place. Once >> in a while,there is conflict... >> So here is the order of precedence for the sources: >> 1 = CURRENT Robot Game Updates, 2 = Missions and Field Setup, 3 = Rules >> ... >> When there is conflict between pictures/videos and text, the text takes >> precedence! >> >> >> So, I will always try to cite the text from the Updates, Missions, Field >> Setup, and Rules when I discuss a question about the Robot Game. >> >> In the Philosophy category, Rule 2, Interpretation really gets to the >> heart of the question: >> Robot game text means exactly and only what it says, so take it literally >> whenever possible. >> - If a detail isn’t mentioned, then it doesn’t matter. >> - There are no hidden requirements or restrictions. If you’ve read >> everything, then you know everything. >> ...and.... >> --You’re encouraged to think this way - Please learn the requirements and >> constraints very well, and then realize the many FREEDOMS that are left. >> >> >> Do make sure that your team reads the examples in Rule 2 and discusses >> them. It's what makes the Robot Game so much fun--understanding an obeying >> the constraints and figuring out something crazy that does a great job >> anyway! >> >> So, yes, if there is nothing special written about the idea model, then >> the team may do anything with it within the rules. The required method for >> the Thinking Outside the Box mission is that "The box model was never in >> Base." As the team recognized, this constraint does not say anything about >> the idea model. So, if there's nothing else in the game that limits where >> or how the idea model may be moved, then the robot may move that model >> anywhere, in any allowable way. >> >> Steve Scherr >> VA-DC FLL Referee Advisor >> >> P.S. for everyone--See the Critical Warning at the end of the Rules. >> Every team wants to have at least one member who is an expert on the game >> documents, and the best teams challenge each other to think of ideas and >> decide whether they are allowable, and, if not, how to tweak them so that >> they are. (But only to use them if they are helpful to the team, of >> course!) >> >> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 10:40 PM, Rick Fontanilla < >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> > >> > Our team just had a meeting to discuss the missions. One of the big >> > discussions was the Outside the Box mission. Challenge says the idea >> > model is no longer touching the box model. The box model was never in >> > Base. One of the kids asked if we could bring the idea model to base. >> I >> > said, in the past seasons, if it is not in the rules specifically, then >> you can >> > do it. >> > Does that sound right? >> > >> > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >> leave the list". >> > >> > -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html to >> subscribe. >> >> ------------------------------ >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >> leave the list". >> VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. 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