Robot Bill is exactly correct, D03 -- Equipment objects are objects that the *team* brings to the match. D08 -- Models are objects on the field when the team arrives (the field set-up kit models) Junk Penalties (D09) can only apply to objects/attachments/items that the team brings to the match. There is no junk penalty for any piece of [team] equipment that is completely in Safety, or that is stored as allowed by R11. Plain word description--if the team brings an object (not the robot) and leaves it outside Safety at the end of the match, then it will be considered Junk. Steve Scherr Virginia-DC FLL Referee Advisor On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Robot Bill <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I'll let the VA-DC FLL referees give an official decision on this, but it > is pretty clear to me with the existing rules what would be junk and what > would not be junk. The key to the interpretation are the words "you bring" > in the definition of equipment in rule D03. Since the junk penalty is only > for "equipment" and equipment is what "you bring" and you are not allowed > to bring models to the field. If you follow all of the logic, then the > models (airplane toys, methane, etc.) are NOT subject to a junk penalty > since they are not "equipment". Only equipment, *that which you brought > to the match*, is subject to the junk penalty. > > > *D09 – Penalties *– A “Penalty” is a deduction from your final score due > to a specific action that is allowed but discouraged. > > Penalty values are found in the Missions. There are two types of Penalty: > > ● Interruption Penalty – Caused by you Interrupting the Robot while it’s > not completely in Safety. > > ● Junk Penalty – Caused… > > * • *immediately – by each piece of *equipment* the Robot strands > partly in Safety. > > * • *at the end of the Match – by each piece of *equipment* still > stranded completely outside Safety. > > *D03 – Equipment* – “Equipment” is everything *you bring to a Match* for > Mission-related activity > > *D08 - Model *– A “Model” (often called a “Mission Model”) is any LEGO > structure already at the Field when you arrive to compete. *You don’t > bring Models to the competition Field* – they’re already there when you > arrive. > > Hopefully I have clarified this a bit for now. > > *RECOMMENDATION:* Your team members, *not* the coach, should > understand the entire challenge and all related updates. They should be > able to provide a logical explanation to any referee who might make a > mistake with respect to applying junk penalties. See rule number R18. > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.firstlegoleague.org_sites_default_files_Challenge_TRASH-2DTREK_TRASH-2DTREK-2DChallenge.pdf&d=BQIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=k6Oa5GxfBPFMgGjb2r5QIoEOeBZs9xbNIpA0kLw_kFQ&m=twYiPSWE6sjIbWMKS9MFV_J1PsbYOEw91AaVSMfKCJA&s=1YG6q4shhwLVEvuCI84WIFwSWht4ba5esXF9a8Q_qsQ&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.firstlegoleague.org_sites_default_files_Challenge_TRASH-2DTREK_TRASH-2DTREK-2DChallenge.pdf&d=BQMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=dGzZ5UFozMDjmk9i_1eDBgLaDXiws364TCKkwctEDgY&s=COaOP9R_SJuU9m16pOznd8Lg2t6wp3XVkmVCm22V9SE&e=> > > *R18 – Scoring * > > ● Scoresheet – The Ref recalls action and inspects the Field with you, > Mission by Mission... > > *• *If you agree with the Ref on all facts, you sign the sheet, and the > score is final. > > *• *If you don’t agree, tell the Ref nicely. Refs can be wrong, and when > they are, they want to know. If there is any lingering disagreement, the > Head Ref makes the final decision. > > > Best of Luck! Have Fun! > Bill > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Joseph Trombo < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Jennifer and all, >> >> The BrickBeasts have discussed this quite a bit, and have come to the >> same conclusions that you have. >> But, I think an official interpretation would be lovely. >> (Please?) >> >> Thanks, >> Amy Trombo >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Jennifer Koehler <[log in to unmask]> >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 14, 2015 11:01 AM >> *Subject:* [VADCFLL-L] Junk and Penalties >> >> What is considered Junk? i.e. If we attempt to collect a trash bag and >> lose it, if we demo the building and don't collect the bricks, if we >> attempt any task really like airplane toys, methane, etc and we drop it and >> don't go back for it, is that considered junk? In reading the definitions, >> it sounds like "equipment" is any attachments we have that we leave on the >> board. So we wouldn't get points for getting things into safety, but we >> wouldn't lose any either? correct? >> >> It's defined below: >> D09 - >> Junk Penalty – Caused… >> • immediately – by each piece of equipment the Robot strands partly in >> Safety. >> • at the end of the Match – by each piece of equipment still stranded >> completely outside Safety. >> >> whereas: >> D03 – Equipment – “Equipment” is everything you bring to a Match for >> Mission-related activity >> >> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html >> and select "Join or leave the list". >> >> -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html >> to subscribe. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >> leave the list". >> VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit >> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to >> subscribe. > > > ------------------------------ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. > Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to > subscribe. > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html to subscribe.