I totally agree to this. Kids need to be on top of the rules regarding the scoring, and if needed refuse to sign the score sheet if they believe there is a bad referee call. We had an incident over the weekend, where there was a bad call, and head referee checked the rules before agreeing the team actually got the points after the referee refused it.. --Oz On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 4:52 PM Frank Levine <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > We are a second year team, and you're 100% right. Spend the week leading > up to the tournament with the kids scoring practice runs as much as > possible. The ones that are running the Robot need to be familiar with > every point that they think they should get, and why. > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 5:41 PM, Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Sure Frank! >> >> I just didn't want to flood the list with a bunch of (often embarrassing) >> back and forth. I'm and old USENET junkie, so I always believe in sharing >> findings out to lists once answers are found. [image: 😊] >> >> >> >> So part of our (rookie) team's problem was definitely not understanding >> the truck scoring mission ("supporting the full weight (at the end)" was >> not during the movement of the truck, but only the end state.. so EITHER 50 >> or 60.. not both (typically.. unless someone picks up and moves the whole >> truck ;) ). >> >> But when discussing the ev3lessons tool with Sanjay, their default >> starting 96 points was confusing when comparing with other grading tools.. >> but looks correct after discussing with him. >> >> I'm continuing to look at how the ref recorded our ending state... but >> right now it looks like we were shorted several of our black bars (all blk >> bars were left in original location or in the flower pot). I'll look at >> the grading sheet we were given back (tonight) and report back here. Since >> we were exactly 32 points lower than expected.. I suspect we were shorted 4 >> black bars of credit. I'll report back once I know for sure. (was there >> anything else that can account for exactly 32points?) >> >> >> *Current Take Aways:* >> >> >> *1) Obtain Intimate Working Knowledge of the End State Grading:* >> >> REALLY make sure the rules/scoring is understood by everyone on your >> team. Especially rookie teams (like us) but even more-so the kids.. since >> THEY are the ones who need to ask possibly challenge the ref's explanation >> of the recorded end of game state. >> >> >> *2) Use the Sample Scoring Sheets:* >> >> Actually USE the sample scoring sheets in your own test runs with the >> kids so that they are used to seeing and using them so that they can >> recognize ref grading issues (or misunderstadngins) before signing off on >> the ref's calls. Our kids had seen the rubric sheets, but we never used a >> robot-game grading sheet with them.. so that's our (coaches) fault. >> >> >> *3) Ref State Review - Go slow and Ask Ask Ask:* >> >> Encourage the kids to ask refs when something looks off or is simply not >> understood. >> Tell them to "Don't rush or feel pressured". >> >> >> >> All things being equal (correct me if I'm wrong), but perceived scoring >> discrepancies can only lie in one of two places right? >> >> i) bad call >> >> or >> >> ii) misunderstanding >> >> >> either way.. the kids should be able to recognize an issue and either >> catch the bad call OR learn the correct state grading/rule. >> >> >> Heh.. I know that with me at least, it's usually that latter (ii) [image: >> 😉] >> >> >> I'll let you all knwo what I find. >> >> >> Tweeks >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Frank Levine <[log in to unmask]> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 9, 2015 4:54 PM >> *To:* Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks >> *Cc:* <[log in to unmask]> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament scores >> >> Given the fact that we are in tournament season and many teams are >> meeting this week and using the EV3Lessons scoring app, I would appreciate >> it if the discussion regarding errors (or not errors) remained out in the >> open. I checked it against our interpretations of the rules and found no >> problems. As long as the whole thing is handled with Gracious >> Professionalism, it is better to have more eyes on potential problems. >> >> The guys at EV3Lessons did a great job on this, please don't restrict the >> flow of information about such a public resource. >> >> Frank Levine >> The Robotic Rockets >> >> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks < >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> Hehe.. I was afraid of this.. >>> Taking discussion off list. :) Ping Sanjay or I if interested in the >>> discussion.. :) >>> >>> Tweeks >>> p.s. we really appreciate the awesome community.. both here, and by >>> folks like the EV3 Lessons folks.. which we (especially us ignorant rookie >>> teams) rely on so heavily :) >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: First Lego League in Virginia and DC <[log in to unmask]> >>> on behalf of EV3 Lessons <[log in to unmask]> >>> Sent: Monday, November 9, 2015 3:39 PM >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament scores >>> >>> @Tweeks: Could you let us know what "grading errors" were in the >>> scoring tool we made that you referred to in your post? It has been >>> tested by many refs. It was used at a Qualifying Tournament last weekend >>> and the refs and/or teams using it have not mentioned any error. >>> >>> If there are errors, we would love the opportunity to correct >>> calculation issues or clarify wording if it was just an interpretation >>> issue by teams. >>> >>> >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ev3lessons.com_resources_scorer_score.html-23en-2Dus&d=BQIFAw&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=ailQO14rcyaiGrNhowCrnShyHOvyrTJuIOCCoO9RCys&s=1QpIBA53ByA4MxnMR7aFrVIIk6919cl2VImkEOhxmog&e= >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Sanjay and Arvind >>> EV3Lessons >>> >>> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >>> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >>> leave the list". >>> >>> -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >>> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit >>> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html to >>> subscribe. >>> >>> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit >>> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or >>> leave the list". >>> >>> -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via >>> VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit >>> https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html to >>> subscribe. >>> >> >> > ------------------------------ > To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit > https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or > leave the list". > VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. > Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-announcements-l.html to > subscribe. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE or CHANGE your settings, please visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-l.html and select "Join or leave the list". -- VADCFLL administrative announcements are sent via VADCFLL-ANNOUNCEMENTS-L. Visit https://listserv.jmu.edu/archives/vadcfll-ANNOUNCEMENTS-l.html to subscribe.