Good discussion. Still, I need to de-enroll in this list. Will someone please tell me how? Thanks, L On Jun 27, 2008, at 7:42 PM, Alison Nicole Crane Reiheld wrote: > I agree that fatherhood cannot be equated with masculinity in a > healthy way any more than motherhood can be equated with femininity > (AKA What It Means To Be A Woman) in a healthy way. > However, note that the authors are coming from the perspective of > being co-authors of a book called "Be A Father To Your Child", the > idea being that if you have been a male progenitor to a child, you > have parenting obligations and cannot leave that aspect of having a > child solely to women. This is not at all the same as saying that > being a good man is being a good father. It's saying that once > you've fathered a child, part of being a good man is being a good > father. It's not good for women who are mothers to have men's > identities be INcompatible with being fathers. And that's a family > values perspective that I find fairly unobjectionable and even > laudable from a feminist perspective. > This is, it's worth noting, not just a problem in black > communities, lest we somehow think that family values issues are > not potentially feminist issues in American society in general. > Feminist literature stemming from the lives of women from numerous > backgrounds has long critiqued the idea that caregiving and > childrearing are seen primarily as women's work, and that this work > benefits society and especially those whose children are reared > while placing disproportionate burdens on women qua caregivers. > Men who take on major caregiving duties toward their children are > often seen as either doing "women's work" or as going above and > beyond the call of duty (supererogatory), whereas women doing the > same thing for their children are seen as doing gender-appropriate > labor that is obligatory rather than supererogatory. If indeed > black masculinity is INcompatible with this kind of work--whether > to the same or different degrees, in the same or in different ways, > as white European masculinity--it's not good for females who are > daughters or who are mothers. > Ultimately, it is good to see a strong and explicit statement > acknowledging that the current choices of many have not been good > for black women and girls, that this has to change, and that part > of the path to correcting this is starting by listening to what > black women and girls say about their lives. This latter part in > particular often gets left out of male calls for better treatment > of women, in my understanding of the history of male involvement in > pro-women movements in many cultures and at many points in history. > This was an interesting and thought-provoking original post. > Thanks very much to Sarah, and to Emanuela and Shay for your > equally thought-provoking comments. > Best, > Alison Reiheld > > > Shay Welch writes: >> I agree. However, if there are no (flawed) beginnings then there >> is no >> progression at all. >> Shay On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Emanuela Bianchi >> <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >>> While in some ways I indeed find this fabulous in its critical >>> sensibility, I am also wary of the aggressive moralism of the >>> "family >>> values" discourse it promotes. I am not at all sure that >>> "families need >>> fathers" nor that the 'way forward' for black masculinity lies in >>> any >>> necessary way in being a father to children. >>> Just my 2 (white, queer, feminist) cents. >>> Emma >>> >>> -- >>> Emanuela Bianchi >>> Visiting Assistant Professor >>> Department of Philosophy >>> Haverford College >>> >>> ----- Original message ----- >>> From: "Sarah Hoagland" <[log in to unmask]> >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:29:06 -0500 >>> Subject: FW: This is Fabulous... >>> ------ Forwarded Message >>> From: Jackie Anderson <[log in to unmask]> >>> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:17:18 -0700 (PDT) >>> Subject: This is Fabulous... >>> >>> Statement of Black Men Against >>> the Exploitation of Black Women >>> From Aaron Lloyd • Adisa Banjoko • Alford Young, Jr. • Byron >>> Hurt • >>> Cheo Tyehimba • Davey D. • Dion Chavis • James Peterson • Kevin >>> Powell >>> • Kevin Williams • Lasana Hotep • Loren S. Harris • Lumumba >>> Akinwole-Bandele • Mo Beasley, Jr. • Saddi Khali • Shaun Neblett • >>> Steven G. Fullwood • Thabiti Boone • William Jelani Cobb * >>> Six years have gone by since we first heard the allegations that R. >>> Kelly had filmed himself having sex with an underage girl. During >>> that >>> time we have seen the videotape being hawked on street corners in >>> Black >>> communities, as if the dehumanization of one of our own was not at >>> stake. We have seen entertainers rally around him and watched his >>> career reach new heights despite the grave possibility that he had >>> molested and urinated on a 13-year old girl. We saw African >>> Americans >>> purchase millions of his records despite the long history of such >>> charges swirling around the singer. Worst of all, we have >>> witnessed the >>> sad vision of Black people cheering his acquittal with a fervor >>> usually >>> reserved for community heroes and shaken our heads at the >>> stunning lack >>> of outrage over the verdict in the broader Black community. >>> Over these years, justice has been delayed and it has been denied. >>> Perhaps a jury can accept R. Kelly's absurd defense and find >>> "reasonable doubt" despite the fact that the film was shot in his >>> home >>> and featured a man who was identical to him. Perhaps they doubted >>> that >>> the young woman in the courtroom was, in fact, the same person >>> featured >>> in the ten year old video. But there is no doubt about this: some >>> young >>> Black woman was filmed being degraded and exploited by a much older >>> Black man, some daughter of our community was left unprotected, and >>> somewhere another Black woman is being molested, abused or raped and >>> our callous handling of this case will make it that much more >>> difficult >>> for her to come forward and be believed. And each of us is >>> responsible >>> for it. >>> We have proudly seen the community take to the streets in defense of >>> Black men who have been the victims of police violence or racist >>> attacks, but that righteous outrage only highlights the silence >>> surrounding this verdict. >>> We believe that our judgment has been clouded by celebrity- >>> worship; we >>> believe that we are a community in crisis and that our addiction to >>> sexism has reached such an extreme that many of us cannot even >>> recognize child molestation when we see it. >>> We recognize the absolute necessity for Black men to speak in a >>> single, >>> unified voice and state something that should be absolutely obvious: >>> that the women of our community are full human beings, that we >>> cannot >>> and will not tolerate the poisonous hatred of women that has already >>> damaged our families, relationships and culture. >>> We believe that our daughters are precious and they deserve our >>> protection. We believe that Black men must take responsibility >>> for our >>> contributions to this terrible state of affairs and make an >>> effort to >>> change our lives and our communities. >>> This is about more than R. Kelly's claims to innocence. It is >>> about our >>> survival as a community. Until we believe that our daughters, >>> sisters, >>> mothers, wives and friends are worthy of justice, until we >>> believe that >>> rape, domestic violence and the casual sexism that permeates our >>> culture are absolutely unacceptable, until we recognize that the >>> first >>> priority of any community is the protection of its young, we will >>> remain in this tragic dead-end. >>> We ask that you: >>> Sign your name if you are a Black male who supports this statement: >>> www.petitiononline.com/rkelly/petition.html >>> Forward this statement to your entire network and ask other Black >>> males >>> to sign as well. >>> Make a personal pledge to never support R. Kelly again in any >>> form or >>> fashion, unless he publicly apologizes for his behavior and gets >>> help >>> for his long-standing sexual conduct, in his private life and in his >>> music. >>> Make a commitment in your own life to never to hit, beat, molest, >>> rape, >>> or exploit Black females in any way and, if you have, to take >>> ownership >>> for your behavior, seek emotional and spiritual help, and, over >>> time, >>> become a voice against all forms of Black female exploitation. >>> Challenge other Black males, no matter their age, class or >>> educational >>> background, or status in life, if they engage in behavior and >>> language >>> that is exploitative and or disrespectful to Black females in any >>> way. >>> If you say nothing, you become just as guilty. >>> Learn to listen to the voices, concerns, needs, criticisms, and >>> challenges of Black females, because they are our equals, and >>> because >>> in listening we will learn a new and different kind of Black >>> manhood. >>> We support the work of scholars, activists and organizations that >>> are >>> helping to redefine Black manhood in healthy ways. Additional >>> resources >>> are listed below. >>> Books: >>> Who's Gonna Take the Weight, Kevin Powell >>> New Black Man, Mark Anthony Neal >>> Deals with the Devil and Other Reasons to Riot, Pearl Cleage >>> Traps: African American Men on Gender and Sexuality, Rudolph Byrd >>> and >>> Beverly Guy-Sheftall >>> Films: >>> I Am A Man: Black Masculinity in America by Byron Hurt >>> Hip Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes by Byron Hurt >>> NO! The Rape Documentary by Aishah Simmons >>> Organizations: >>> The 2025 Campaign: www.2025bmb.org >>> Men Stopping Violence: www.menstoppingviolence.org >>> >>> * The aforementioned men are contributors to the new anthology BE A >>> FATHER TO YOUR CHILD: REAL TALK FROM BLACK MEN ON FAMILY, LOVE, AND >>> FATHERHOOD, Edited by April R. Silver. Only the aforementioned are >>> signees to the statement issued above. >>> >>> To share YOUR thoughts, find out more about the signees or >>> the BE A FATHER book, please visit the official website: >>> www.beafathertoyourchild.com >>> >>> >>> ------ End of Forwarded Message >