I see several people beat me to the punch on thanking Gaile for her well-put post. Rebecca On 6/8/08, Hilde Lindemann <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Thanks, Gaile Jr., for saying what I wanted to say myself. These > comparisons are odious and they hurt people. > Best, > Hilde > > At 02:47 PM 6/8/2008, you wrote: > > Yes, indeed. > > I wonder what people think about the chances of Obama's success, given the > hard and deep reality of racism in the US. Is this country really ready to > elect a black president? > > Joan > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Feminist ethics and social theory [mailto:[log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]>] > *On Behalf Of *Janine Jones JCJONES2 > *Sent:* Sunday, June 08, 2008 2:34 PM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: FW: NYTimes.com: Judith Warner: Woman in Charge, Women Who > Charge > > And piggy-backing on what you say here, Gail (thanks for your comments), a > lot of racist comments directed at Obama and his voters/supporters were not > conceivable as such, for the reasons you give. Front certain viewpoints it > was absolutely clear that Obama dealt with a great deal of unnamed, dare I > say unnameable racism. In postings a couple of weeks ago Sarah Hoagland > made reference to the construction of ignorance. (She was referencing > Charles Mills, who is concerned with certain forms of cognitive > dissonance.) I think that leaving things unnamed, making them unnameable -- > e.g. certain forms of racism -- is one of the key ways in which ignorance is > constructed. As you say, racism and sexism operate in different ways. > Going hand-in-hand with Mills project one might ask both why certain forms > of racism are unnamed, they have become unnameable, and what are the effects > of the kind of ignorance thereby constructed. > -----Feminist ethics and social theory <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: ----- > To: [log in to unmask] > From: Gaile Pohlhaus <[log in to unmask]> > Sent by: Feminist ethics and social theory <[log in to unmask]> > Date: 06/08/2008 01:46PM > Subject: Re: FW: NYTimes.com: Judith Warner: Woman in Charge, Women Who > Charge > > I think it is very important that we recognize the amount of misogyny that > has transpired over H. Clinton's bid for the nomination and I also think > juxtaposing that misogyny to the popularity of Sex in the City is brilliant > (a show that my students continue to tell me is "really diverse"because > each of the 4 women have really different attitudes about sex... there are > so many different ways white women can relate themselves to men! Imagine > that?). Still, I am not sure how helpful it is to say "if similarly hateful > racial remarks had been made about Obama, our nation would have turned > itself inside out in a paroxysm of soul-searching and shame. Had > mainstream commentators in 2000 speculated, say, that Joe Lieberman had a > nose for dough, or made funny Shylock references, heads would have rolled." > Racism and anti-Semitism don't operate in the exact same ways that sexism > and misogyny do, so why would we expect such easy comparisons? While I > imagine > the statement is intended to emphasize how far we have *not* come with > regard to sexism and misogyny, it can (and I think does) have the effect of > making it seem like we *have* come a long way with regard to racism and > anti-semitism/Christo-normativity. And the ironic thing (to my mind) is that > one of the reasons (I believe) that we don't hear blatant racist jokes out > in the open in the media is precisely because white America wants so much to > pretend that race & racism do not exist anymore (one of the ways racism > operates: problem? what problem?) so it would seem that many would be very > quick to read the statement in the "wow racism just doesn't exist anymore, > does it?" way. Consequently, the _effect_ of the statement is to make a > (purportedly) feminist point off the backs of people of color and > nonChristians, isn't it? > > There's been plenty of racism abounding in this primary and the Obamas > lives have been plenty disrupted by it--they can't even join a new religious > community until the campaign is over for fear that reporters will > continually disrupt that community hoping to get sound bites that will scare > white America. The fact that that racism comes in ways that are different > from the ways in which sexism comes should be no surprise to this list. > Easy comparisons at the expense of nonChristian women and women of color > only undermine feminist work. > > In Solidarity, > > GP, jr. > > > > > > Hilde Lindemann > Professor of Philosophy > 503 South Kedzie Hall > Michigan State University > East Lansing, MI 48824 > 517-353-3981 > [log in to unmask] >