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on another tangent... 



does anyone have any ideas on how we can encourage more adults to coach some inner city teams.  I have coached 2 years at the boys and girls clubs in richmond and know of at least 3 other teams that are ready to go, funding in place but need adult coaches.  If anyone knows anyone in the area who would be willing to help please let me know.  thanks. 




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Debbie Brumback" <[log in to unmask]> 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:04:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Gracious Professionalism.  Is there an equal but somewhat different motto needed for girls? 

Hi Kevin, 
Hope you don't mind me sending my reply back to the whole group. 

I don't have a conclusion.  I'm still wondering, looking for an answer in 
places not always considered, and therefore, opening it up for discussion. 

When I read the definition of gracious professionalism, it seems like its 
about channeling the pumped up energy of guys (or girls) who are extremely 
bright and confident and therefore, at risk of being too vocal and proud 
about their successes.   

There is another group of potential engineers/computer scientists who are a 
bit more soft spoken, such as quiet girls that can happily sit quietly in 
the corner doing math problems.  They might have good ideas for engineering 
or programming as well.  But, it's not in their nature or upbringing to 
boldly challenge a guy with an equally good design idea.   Emphasizing the 
importance of gracious professionalism doesn't challenge them at all to jump 
up and defend their great idea.  Maybe "standing up for myself", as my 
daughter mentioned, is implemented for them by moving into another computer 
group or another degree program or choosing a professional field like music 
or medicine where they are given their own students or patients and can work 
independently, remain soft-spoken, and also be heard. 

Another point that I've tried to make with my daughter regarding computer 
science and math students, for her case she mostly has observed her brother 
and other guys, is that these guys can be risk takers and gamblers. Teenage 
guys often have a bit too much confident that things will turn out their 
way.  Compare this to a girl that plays the violin and quilts perfect quilt 
squares.  That's not a person whose is going to challenge a guy's idea and 
recommend the team try it her way until she has had time to make sure her 
ideas are going to work.  But, she won't have time to think through her 
ideas and prepare them to be presented while the guys are already forging 
ahead on their grand ideas, working every free minute on their programming 
or robot, valiantly taking chances and running on a trial and error sort of 
approach to finding a solution.   

I'm not saying either approach is right or wrong.  But, I do see two very 
different approaches to reaching an engineering/programming solution that 
might just be frustrating some girls to the point of moving into other 
fields of study.  The guy's way seems to start the ball rolling earlier 
leaving the girl's design idea left in the dust, even if in the end it would 
have worked just as well or better.  My daughter sent her brother a Murphy's 
Law poster for his birthday.  The phrase that caught her eye, having 
witnessed about 4 years of lego league work, was "There's never time to do 
it right but always time to do it over."  Maybe a clue to a girl approach to 
problem solving versus a boy's approach? 

Focusing on gracious professionalism again, its a wonderful concept that I 
completely support.  I'm just asking how it applies to the girls that, well, 
aren't even showing up for lego league meetings or computer science classes 
in college?  I suspect many of these girls would be models of gracious 
professionalism.  Yet, in order for them to be successful lego team members 
or computer programmers they might need some other motto that works on 
building up the very same skills that gracious professionalism is trying to 
subdue in the overzealous guys. 

I'm generalizing and stereotyping to make my point.  I  know there are many 
girls that need to work on gracious professionalism and boys that are 
already gentlemen blessed with plenty of gracious professionalism. 
Debbie 




>  -----Original Message----- 
> From:         KevinHines [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
> Sent:        Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:04 PM 
> To:        Debbie Brumback 
> Subject:        RE: [VADCFLL-L] Gracious Professionalism.  Is there an equal 
> but somewhat different motto needed for girls? 
> 
> Debbie, 
> 
> Thank you for your post about girls in FLL & gracious professionalism.  I 
> have also been thinking about posting on a related topic: how to recruit 
> more girls into our FLL teams. 
> 
> I appreciate you bringing up this subject; you bring up a number of 
> interesting points. 
> 
> I do think we, as a society, need to find ways specifically to attract and 
> retain girls and women in the world of engineering and science, and FLL is 
> a great way to put this into practice. 
> 
> I don't actually understand what your conclusion is, regarding how the 
> definition of gracious professionalism affects girls and women... and I 
> would like to understand. 
> 
> Is there another way to state this, so that I would understand? 
> 
> If talking on the phone would work better than email, please feel free to 
> call me anytime.  I want to understand. 
> 
> PS - My comments are embedded in your email, below. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> Kevin 
> 

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