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The second image is the only one that would score the 110 based on my
reading.  In the first image the following is not true "Truck supports all
of the Yellow Bin’s weight".  It is simple east of the truck guide
resulting in 60 points.

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Naren Botlaguduru <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Is there anyway the judges can show a picture of position of the truck and
> yellow bin to score 110 points. The wording is very confusing and leading
> to different conclusions.
>
> My team would like to know which of these two images will score 110
> points.
>
> Image1
> [image: image1.JPG]
>
> Image2
> [image: image2.JPG]
>
> Thx
> Naren
>
> On Nov 9, 2015, at 6:01 PM, Shashi Goli <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Resending correct link for Challenge updates:
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.firstlegoleague.org_sites_default_files_Challenge_TRASH-2DTREK_FLL-2520TRASH-2520TREK-2520UPDATES.pdf&d=BQIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=cck4AChjqzAX6FyQkuGkpc3zYvB8DAx4CR_xzI9GS3c&s=e4IQbbXwNOvF9ag5gLDI1tjehTwEJMIdCqfdman_CfM&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.firstlegoleague.org_sites_default_files_Challenge_TRASH-2DTREK_FLL-2520TRASH-2520TREK-2520UPDATES.pdf&d=BQMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=WYeY7mc6EbABGWiEx-KeZl0BSe07kqAnI0SwC3mdddQ&s=G3o_19vQrQl-vqbx7wmhBEAu0Gq5ncNileu-hF-7B-o&e=>
>
> *14 - TRANSPORT 110 M03 Frequently Asked (10-12-15) The Transport Mission
> max score is indeed 110. This is the meaning you were supposed to take from
> “score one or both.” Think it through, and use high caution when throwing
> around the word “impossible” - especially in FIRST LEGO League.*
>
> Thanks,
> Shashi
>
>
>
> On Monday, November 9, 2015 5:59 PM, Shashi Goli <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>                 Per the challenge update document as of Oct 12, 2015, see
> below 110 is the max score. If the truck loads the yellow bin and gets is
> to the complete east end of the track without yellow bin falling off, it
> should result in 110 points. (I assume this mission can be done before the
> sorter mission). Perhaps, the referees / judges were not aware of this
> update?
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.firstlegoleague.org_sites_default_files_Challenge_TRASH-2DTREK_TRASH-2DTREK-2DChallenge.pdf&d=BQIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=cck4AChjqzAX6FyQkuGkpc3zYvB8DAx4CR_xzI9GS3c&s=gNp1mcwFQOFLO2Pfw28pVvGmLOKJn1gfE37gt67z3A0&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.firstlegoleague.org_sites_default_files_Challenge_TRASH-2DTREK_TRASH-2DTREK-2DChallenge.pdf&d=BQMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=WYeY7mc6EbABGWiEx-KeZl0BSe07kqAnI0SwC3mdddQ&s=gB2u1We2g0qPcJA_QfPBHMtdT_LnXvPvq1u7qR7UQSk&e=>
>
> *14 - TRANSPORT 110 M03 Frequently Asked (10-12-15) The Transport Mission
> max score is indeed 110. This is the meaning you were supposed to take from
> “score one or both.” Think it through, and use high caution when throwing
> around the word “impossible” - especially in FIRST LEGO League.*
>
> Thanks,
> Shashi
> Coach 7PetaBytes
>
>
>
> On Monday, November 9, 2015 5:51 PM, Frank Levine <[log in to unmask]
> <[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
>
> We are a second year team, and you're 100% right.  Spend the week leading
> up to the tournament with the kids scoring practice runs as much as
> possible.  The ones that are running the Robot need to be familiar with
> every point that they think they should get, and why.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 5:41 PM, Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Sure Frank!
> I just didn't want to flood the list with a bunch of (often embarrassing)
> back and forth.  I'm and old USENET junkie, so I always believe in sharing
> findings out to lists once answers are found. [image: ��]
>
>
> So part of our (rookie) team's problem was definitely not understanding
> the truck scoring mission ("supporting the full weight (at the end)" was
> not during the movement of the truck, but only the end state.. so EITHER 50
> or 60.. not both (typically.. unless someone picks up and moves the whole
> truck ;) ).
>
> But when discussing the ev3lessons tool with Sanjay, their default
> starting 96 points was confusing when comparing with other grading tools..
> but looks correct after discussing with him.
>
> I'm continuing to look at how the ref recorded our ending state... but
> right now it looks like we were shorted several of our black bars (all blk
> bars were left in original location or in the flower pot).  I'll look at
> the grading sheet we were given back (tonight) and report back here.  Since
> we were exactly 32 points lower than expected.. I suspect we were shorted 4
> black bars of credit. I'll report back once I know for sure. (was there
> anything else that can account for exactly 32points?)
>
>
> *Current Take Aways:*
>
> *1) Obtain Intimate Working Knowledge of the End State Grading:*
> REALLY make sure the rules/scoring is understood by everyone on your team.
> Especially rookie teams (like us) but even more-so the kids.. since THEY
> are the ones who need to ask possibly challenge the ref's explanation of
> the recorded end of game state.
>
> *2) Use the Sample Scoring Sheets:*
> Actually USE the sample scoring sheets in your own test runs with the kids
> so that they are used to seeing and using them so that they can recognize
> ref grading issues (or misunderstadngins) before signing off on the ref's
> calls.  Our kids had seen the rubric sheets, but we never used a robot-game
> grading sheet with them.. so that's our (coaches) fault.
>
> *3) Ref State Review - Go slow and Ask Ask Ask:*
> Encourage the kids to ask refs when something looks off or is simply not
> understood.
> Tell them to "Don't rush or feel pressured".
>
>
> All things being equal (correct me if I'm wrong), but perceived scoring
> discrepancies can only lie in one of two places right?
> i) bad call
> or
> ii) misunderstanding
>
> either way.. the kids should be able to recognize an issue and either
> catch the bad call OR learn the correct state grading/rule.
>
> Heh.. I know that with me at least, it's usually that latter (ii) [image:
> ��]
>
> I'll let you all knwo what I find.
>
> Tweeks
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Frank Levine <[log in to unmask]>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 9, 2015 4:54 PM
> *To:* Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks
> *Cc:* <[log in to unmask]>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament scores
>
> Given the fact that we are in tournament season and many teams are meeting
> this week and using the EV3Lessons scoring app, I would appreciate it if
> the discussion regarding errors (or not errors) remained out in the open.
> I checked it against our interpretations of the rules and found no
> problems.  As long as the whole thing is handled with Gracious
> Professionalism, it is better to have more eyes on potential problems.
>
> The guys at EV3Lessons did a great job on this, please don't restrict the
> flow of information about such a public resource.
>
> Frank Levine
> The Robotic Rockets
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Thomas (Tweeks) Weeks <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Hehe.. I was afraid of this..
> Taking discussion off list. :)  Ping Sanjay or I if interested in the
> discussion.. :)
>
> Tweeks
> p.s. we really appreciate the awesome community.. both here, and by folks
> like the EV3 Lessons folks.. which we (especially us ignorant rookie teams)
> rely on so heavily :)
>
> ________________________________________
> From: First Lego League in Virginia and DC <[log in to unmask]>
> on behalf of EV3 Lessons <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, November 9, 2015 3:39 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VADCFLL-L] Tournament scores
>
> @Tweeks:  Could you let us know what "grading errors" were in the scoring
> tool we made that you referred to in your post?   It has been tested by
> many refs. It was used at a Qualifying Tournament last weekend and the refs
> and/or teams using it have not mentioned any error.
>
> If there are errors, we would love the opportunity to correct calculation
> issues or clarify wording if it was just an interpretation issue by teams.
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ev3lessons.com_resources_scorer_score.html-23en-2Dus&d=BQIFAw&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=J5fb0ELkRoh7TzAGYz99sSMvB-c7i4AC0HDT2OVPrww&m=ailQO14rcyaiGrNhowCrnShyHOvyrTJuIOCCoO9RCys&s=1QpIBA53ByA4MxnMR7aFrVIIk6919cl2VImkEOhxmog&e=
>
> Thank you,
> Sanjay and Arvind
> EV3Lessons
>
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