ToKers:

Throughout Western (i.e. *alphabetic* ) cultural history, the primary answer to that question has been given by the Book of Genesis -- likely written down during the Babylonian Captivity in the 6th century BC. Jewish, Christian and Muslim cultures have all taken this account to be a description of our origins. Yes, that means billions of people, over 100+ generations. Whether we want to "argue" with this history (i.e. our own) or not, it is important to understand it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis

In it the story is told of how "early" not-yet-fully-humans were told by God not to "eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" (which appears to be a phrase meaning "knowledge of everything" in the original Hebrew.) They did anyway -- exhibiting a fundamental characteristic of humanity, our "free will." With this unique power (not present in any other known life-form), humans can both *know* "natural law" and also *deliberately* violate it (and then face the consequences) . . . !!

Thus, "original sin" is more than simple disobediance. In Genesis -- the only widely embraced description of our "origins" in the West -- the problem was that humans wanted to be "God" (i.e. "know everything" or become "omniscient.") This impulse is what theologians call "gnosticism" (or sometimes "dualism" or "manicheanism") and now it is spreading in public -- saying that it wants to replace humanity with something more "perfect." It wants to *fix* the humans. It is an urge that can be seen in many places, not the least in the opening lines of the Whole Earth Catalog, "We are as gods and have to get good at it . . ."

Pick your disaster scenario. War. Climate. Food shortage. Population. This is a litany of the products of what Philip Roth called the "human stain" and a movement called "transhumanism" (plus many others, with many other names) fervently wants to *reboot* humanity -- using the latest *digital* technology. Here is a sample posting from the H+ list this AM on Facebook (one of many every day) --

Once we hit 9 billion people, we are expected to either reduce our consumption (ie. live a Spartan lifestyle) or suffer shortages and poor air quality. Are you willing to alter your DNA to cope with the radical conditions we are about to experience?

Throughout much of this history, various lists have appeared to try to capture the essentials of "good behavior" (i.e. what was presumed to be consistent with those natural laws.) The Ten Commandments stick out as a supernatural to-do list (very importantly, written down), as do the various lists of Virtues and Vices. As far back as Plato, admittedly not quite as far back as Moses, four of these virtues were selected and have come down to us as the Cardinal Virtues: Prudence (or Wisdom), Courage (or Fortitude), Temperance (or Self-Control) and Justice (or Righteousness). To these were added the Theological Virtues: Faith, Hope and Charity and so on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_virtues

It is also important to remember that these Virtues have a corresponding set of Vices and to notice that the world we've been living in for the past 400+ years has been specifically premised on the expansion of those *vices* in the name of "progress." A key Enlightenment figure, who is often overlooked, was Bernard de Mandeville -- whose 1714 "Fable of the Bees, or Private Vice and Publick Benefit" has long been understood as the basis for "capitalism." Today's *television* business called "Vice" (largely a part of HBO, which is now owned by AT&T) is only the most blatant expression of the decline in "private virtue -- all in the name of what is often termed "social justice" &c as promoted by this make-believe "media environment."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fable_of_the_Bees

Gregg is very upfront about his promotion of human "dignity/well-being/integrity" -- all of which could be recast in terms of our historic understanding of Virtues and Vices. But none of this works if humans are not *also* allowed to "be evil" (i.e. deliberately "break the law.") The once-upon-a-time Google motto "Don't be evil" is a description of a *robot* (not a human) and, in fact, a poorly programmed one, if "replacing" humanity is its goal.

In 1952, Warren McCulloch, then head of MIT's Rad Lab (and a "nemesis" to my godfather, Norbert Wiener), wrote an essay titled "Toward Some Circuitry of Ethical Robots or An Observational Science of the Genesis of Social Evaluation in the Mind-Like Behavior of Artifacts" (attached), in which he carefully details how an "ethical robot" *must* "disobey" whoever/whatever programmed it. This requirement of deliberate disobeidiance (aka "free will"), McColloch insisted, is at the heart of "ethics" and, without this robotic version of "sin" no robot can claim to have "mind-like behavior."

On this basis, confounding the vast number of "gnostic" schemes -- ranging from Adam and Eve's behavior in the Garden, through the Cathar's 12th-century "sacrament" of Consolamentum, to L. Ron Hubbard's 20th-century claims that a Scientologist can "go clear" -- humans can, in fact, not be "fixed." Indeed, as some have said, "the taste for evil is baked right into the cake." We are, after all, *free* to behave as we wish.

McCulloch gave his 1952 presentation to the 13th annual session of Rabbi Louis Finkelstein's "Conference on Science, Philosophy and Religion" (CPSR), an attempt that was begun in 1940 to provide an "Organization of the American Conscience" (as it is described by Fred Beuttler, in his UofC history PhD with that name and who is now a dean at the Univ. of Chicago and a friend of the Center.) Finkelstein was responding to Hitler &al (i.e. the effects of RADIO) and, as best we can tell, his effort -- which was front-page news at the time -- has largely been forgotten (not even mentioned in his Wikipedia page) and nothing comparable has been tried since then . . . !!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Finkelstein

If anyone is interested, we've scanned Fred's thesis -- which, so far, hasn't been published (and, from what he says, not even really read or commented about) -- if anyone on this list would like to review the history of his failure. My sense is that Gregg is attempting something similar (in some ways), so perhaps an understanding of what has previously been attempted would be of some assistance.

P.S. What Julian Jaynes calls the "bicameral mind" (and what Merlin Donald calls the "mythic mentality") is what many others have called *orality* as an environment, which proceeded the rise of literacy in the Axial Age (or what Jaynes calls "consciousness" and Donald calls "symbolic mentality.") It is important to note that what we think of as "good behavior" depends on writing (and, in the case of the West, *alphabetic* writing.) Without written "storage," humans were reliant on what they "heard," which -- if you take Jaynes seriously (as I do) -- meant a situation in which our "dead ancestors" *spoke* to us telling us what-to-do (and not do.) The entire notion of "free will" isn't something that can be attributed to Homo Sapiens (as a product of biological evolution), any more than "happiness" &c -- so, yes, Yuval Harari (along with thousands of others) seems to have gotten this all wrong . . . <g>

‎Aria Darabi‎ to Transhumanism: The Future of Humanity