Gregg, thanks for the last installment of "what makes us different." It pulls the pieces together in a clear understandable way, and points the way forward effectively by focusing us on the fifth nodal point/dimension and the question, "what has happened to the "person" in the last 50-30k years, and what is the situation in which we find ourselves - together with the planet as a whole, especially with regard to suffering?" In my view, your closing paragraphs situate us right where we need/want to be: "The hope here is that with the right kind of meta-awareness, perhaps we can build a meta-justification system, one that is conducive to the coming wave of change. A justification of justifications to use Waldemar’s frame. That, Frank, is I think what you are getting at with the centrality of personal identity and dignity. What I am envisioning is a combination of a system that both integrates knowledge and fosters individual development, all in a way that “dances” with how the world will change (and change us) as it continues to accelerate. " Looking forward to others thoughts and suggestions, especially about "meta-justification" (for me: freedom) Best, Frank Francis J. Ambrosio, PhD Associate Professor of Philosophy Senior Fellow, Center for New Designs in Learning and Scholarship Georgetown University 202-687-7441 On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 8:09 PM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > Ok, to move the conversation along, I developed a quick draft that gets at > why the JH is a new, central piece of the puzzle, as it frames the shift in > human consciousness and the emergence of large scale justification systems. > > > > With this puzzle piece in place, then we are ready to focus on the “fifth > joint point” and the future of humanity. > > > > G > > > > > > > > *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion < > [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Frank Ambrosio > *Sent:* Sunday, August 19, 2018 10:13 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: re easy pieces > > > > Gregg, > > > > Just to be clear: I am all aboard for staying on topic here, the topic of > which pieces are minimally necessary for an integrated view of what makes > us different, both from other animals and AI. I am compressing the distinct > question of the logic of that integration, for now, into the question of > identifying the pieces. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Frank > > > > > > Francis J. Ambrosio, PhD > > Associate Professor of Philosophy > > Senior Fellow, Center for New Designs in Learning and Scholarship > > Georgetown University > > 202-687-7441 > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 3:52 PM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Mark and Frank, > > > > I think the concept of what constitutes a mental disorder is a fascinating > and important question (although I hope we stay on the topic of human > difference—perhaps this can be an asterisk for future exporation?). It > was the focus of one of my first theory papers > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.gregghenriques.com_uploads_2_4_3_6_24368778_finalhd1.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=k4htm14sO0GrRKScsHwwHqJTeVTAkHCqFXa9yVlbR48&s=gKqegUk2vnzt0-Gh7YGEY85qgtvHKytPDzXf_W_IvHs&e=>, > published prior to my unified theory work in 2002. The justification of > mental disorder and disease is crucial to our identity. Szasz said some > very important things. He also “over shot” in that, yes, people actually do > go crazy. Their perceptual-affect systems breakdown and they hallucinate > and their justification systems go haywire and they form delusions. A > profound thought disorder is as evident of a broken mind as a heart attack. > If someone grabbed their chest, screamed in pain and died, we would say > something was wrong with them, even if we found no lesions in their heart. > > > > All that said, the majority of what we call mental illnesses, the neurotic > conditions, are by and large problems in living and coping that lead to > clinically significant levels of distress. They are mental-behavioral > problems, not diseases in the traditional medicine sense. Some blogs on > this issue: > > What is a Mental Disorder? > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__my.psychologytoday.com_blog_theory-2Dknowledge_201201_what-2Dis-2Dmental-2Ddisorder&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=k4htm14sO0GrRKScsHwwHqJTeVTAkHCqFXa9yVlbR48&s=lowwMA9FHJ_VRGReIVo1WulxFkSSDugk5aURlPhwUg0&e=> > Five Broad Models of Mental Illness > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__my.psychologytoday.com_blog_theory-2Dknowledge_201206_five-2Dbroad-2Dmodels-2Dmental-2Dillness-2D1&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=k4htm14sO0GrRKScsHwwHqJTeVTAkHCqFXa9yVlbR48&s=Y7-TiYgGDBPAaJUiJH25gRplgdKF5EVf8Wxo3ZYVlZI&e=> > Mental Disorders Vs Diseases > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__my.psychologytoday.com_blog_theory-2Dknowledge_201305_mental-2Ddisorders-2Dvs-2Ddiseases&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=k4htm14sO0GrRKScsHwwHqJTeVTAkHCqFXa9yVlbR48&s=X8iIHyVuwaikdtfl8ALHLE7OLl03-x3MEafB9NfiUQQ&e=> > > This one is on Szasz: > > Is Psychiatry the Science of Lies? > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__my.psychologytoday.com_blog_theory-2Dknowledge_201212_is-2Dpsychiatry-2Dthe-2Dscience-2Dlies&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=k4htm14sO0GrRKScsHwwHqJTeVTAkHCqFXa9yVlbR48&s=3NBiyjG_A-eppOGVPQiCyfE0nreUhtpsim6LAwCyYbM&e=> > > > > Best, > Gregg > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> > On Behalf Of Mark Stahlman > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 8:30 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: easy pieces > > > > Frank: > > > > Very interesting -- thanks . . . !! > > > > As you know, Ernest Becker was "mentored" by Thomas Szasz, an important > figure in the "anti-psychiatry" movement of the 1960s. > > > > Just as we are now in another "counter-culture," Szasz was in the middle > of his (along with some of the rest of us.) The last time this happened, > RADIO psychology -- particularly the medical version -- came > > under attack by the *new* techno-paradigm TELEVISION types. > > Psychiatry lost. > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Thomas-5FSzasz&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=XAkYRpRyVB6UU9pFYHb8b9G4xQy0T81UTArZU-8mBDE&s=y5HRC2ZOx6lt3U-JNJCXfztJ-zUX7azmsaSvzsK4thE&e > = > > > > His 1961 "The Myth of Mental Illness" and 1970 "The Manufacture of > > Madness" accompanied Michel Foucault's 1961 "History of Madness" &c. > > One of the components which fed all this was the use of LSD -- beginning > and becoming widespread in psychotherapy in the 1950s and then spread by > the anti-psychiatrists in the 1960s, including after it became illegal -- > which was viewed by some as "mimicking" psychosis, while others saw it as > opening the "Doors of Perception." How's that for "counter" views > (reminding us of the recent "Entropic Brain" post by Gregg) . . . !! > > > > Wikipedia notes -- > > > > "Szasz argued throughout his career that mental illness is a metaphor for > human problems in living, and that mental illnesses are not "illnesses" in > the sense that physical illnesses are; and that except for a few > identifiable brain diseases, there are "neither biological or chemical > tests nor biopsy or necropsy findings for verifying DSM diagnoses." > > > > "Szasz maintained throughout his career that he was not anti-psychiatry > but was rather anti-coercive psychiatry. He was a staunch opponent of civil > commitment and involuntary psychiatric treatment but believed in, and > practiced, psychiatry and psychotherapy between consenting adults." > > > > Yes, the closing of mental institutions was one of the results. As are at > least some aspects of the increase in "mass killings" &c. > > > > In the summer of 1967 (aka "The Summer of Love," when I was in > Haight-Ashbury looking for some LSD), the Tavistock Institute held a > conference at what was probably the peak of this movement -- called the > "Dialectics of Liberation Congress" (and published under the title "To Free > a Generation") -- organized by David Cooper, their resident > "anti-psychiatrist" (and a colleague of R.D. Laing, widely nominated to > take over for Tim Leary, also a psychologist, as the LSD "guru.") > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Dialectics-5Fof-5FLiberation-5FCongress&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=XAkYRpRyVB6UU9pFYHb8b9G4xQy0T81UTArZU-8mBDE&s=4PDB5jFs232nZnFGRrkUQ4nEyaGOmGie8A_C7rRTwA0&e > = > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Free-2DGeneration-2DDavid-2DCooper_dp_B000V2FMZA&d=DwIDaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=XAkYRpRyVB6UU9pFYHb8b9G4xQy0T81UTArZU-8mBDE&s=Iz7r3gjr1MToZMRqRZJIMlml-eFd3p1pdOuxh3zghrc&e > = > > > > "Emergent cosmic reality" and "cosmic information exchange dynamism" > > would likely have been phrases that would have been right at home there . > . . <g> > > > > Mark > > > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the > following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the > following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the > following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1