Hi Gregg, That’s really interesting referring to your UTUA model as a “unified metaphysical empirical language system.” Do you have any material expanding on that specifically? There is a real challenge with synthesizing premodern frames with other modern frames. For example, what I’ve outlined about the Word being the agent of cosmos-making I think primarily has to do with the “cosmos” as the phenomenological world(views) of human meaning and culture, not the objective physical space-time “cosmos" of modern science, which is one big source of confusion I find when the ancient frames are confused with the scientific frames. The ancient biblical worldview outlined in the essay primarily relates with the level of Culture in ToK I think, the worlds of meaning and culture. Now there’s overlap because the ancient phenomenological worldview overlaps with a modern scientific worldview. But one trouble I have sometimes is figuring out which should be nested into which. For example, in addition to the topics I’ve covered in the essay, one thing I’ve thought about is theology of God as Trinity as a phenomenological model of reality, which I could expand on if you’re interested. I bring this up because in some respects it appears to me to be a model that can be nested within modern science, and in other respects appears to be a model that modern science can be nested within. Which put another way somewhat parallels whether a scientific model should be nested in a phenomenological model or vice-versa. So I end up with a “nesting problem.” I hope this isn’t too much off topic. I just find seeking to say integrate ancient phenomenological world-models with modern scientific world-models challenging and unresolved for myself. Any thoughts? Dan > On Jun 14, 2019, at 7:57 AM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Hi Dan, > I agree this is a fascinating essay and thanks for sharing. Lots to discuss, but let me share for now my “ultimate vision” (fantasy? 😊) of the Tree of Knowledge System (and larger UTUA framework) is that it can be part of the “meta” Cultural/Meta-Consciousness solution. By that I mean it can be one of the key “large scale” systems that allow for an integration point that pulls together many previously fragmented language games. In this past year, I have been starting to refer to the System as a “unified metaphysical empirical language system.” The idea is that it might help serve as a kind of “Rosetta stone” for deciphering the many paradigms and worldviews and allow us some reprieve from the current “tower of babel” (i.e., fragmented language) and move closer to the original Tower of Babel (i.e., a more unified language). <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_us_blog_theory-2Dknowledge_201301_psychologys-2Dtower-2Dbabel&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=f5_j8o-VinA6b_Asniww82vr763jtuP7yddI_UIlSys&s=0bmDYdEkcA9MQdGejmFeL5kd2EYQMx5lNPjvd-E9N6g&e=> Below is a graphic depiction that tries capture both the tree metaphor more concretely and the idea that, via the ToK, we might rise above the multiplicity of fragmented language games and achieve a more unified language system via achieving a more “meta cultural-consciousness position in relation.” > > Best, > Gregg > <image002.jpg> > > > From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Dan Coburn > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 9:19 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: A psychology of Christianity > > Hi ToK folks! > > Recently I shared this blog post with Gregg which explores a psychology of Christianity. I decided to share it here with our group and welcome your feedback on what you make of it. > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__medium.com_-40daniellewis-5F25907_a-2Dpsychology-2Dof-2Dchristianity-2Dc3b2733e50f8&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=f5_j8o-VinA6b_Asniww82vr763jtuP7yddI_UIlSys&s=R8mIcLKh0LqOMX1kj0wnfyGvR4AdXLe4VbRl_VFa93U&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__medium.com_-40daniellewis-5F25907_a-2Dpsychology-2Dof-2Dchristianity-2Dc3b2733e50f8&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=Fu9d8LS6Z12B7UKMgfwQctAWOQLPX7rtoc1rP4Gg_6k&s=WiGgM6EN3mXKN1wqW27w1ajtGNFEySzFMYfFXSJ6GFQ&e=> > > The topics are pretty wide-ranging. Gregg brought up Peterson and Harris’ discussions about science and religion as relevant. I’m also interested in exploring how my outline relates with Gregg’s ToK system. Plus whatever else you’d like to add to the mix! > > For a bit of context, I’ve had a big interest in exploring relationships between psychology, spirituality, and religion (mostly Christianity based on my background) for a few years now, and this blog represents a culmination of some of my reflections. I also share Ken Wilber’s concern with how our major paradigms of knowledge from premodern religion, modern science, and postmodern pluralism are often fragmented, and Wilber’s interest in seeking more successful integrations of our intellectual heritage so to speak. Which is partly what frames this for me and motivates me to explore a psychology of Christianity. > > Let me know what you think. Looking forward to your feedback! > > Dan > ############################ > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1>############################ > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1