Hi, ToK'ers! Relatively new to the list (along with Cory). Intriguing topic, here, and of course very timely. I started writing on this topic in 2014. I published a short piece for my old campus (UC Santa Barbara's) Science and Tech newspaper column. I link it here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__dailynexus.com_2014-2D08-2D27_artificial-2Dintelligence-2Dcan-2Dscience-2Dtruly-2Drecreate-2Dyou_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=YHXtBxs7Oqxgc_mn-USVWM6c788fTpFwEjwsaSFeHqk&s=zoa8c0_6un152ROj0sdRnjX_Ohyu0myyoK-zkPNojzk&e= For quotes, I interviewed one of my ethics debate coaches and social psychology/psychology of self professor. Some of you may recognize their names and/or work (the former is a philosopher). The former is reserved about mind-body dualism a la Descartes, while the latter rejects physicalism as a dominant mode for understanding human experience. I started a manuscript on affect, self, and subjectivity in modern A.I. (theory and applications), in 2015...but, haven't worked on it in a while. Lastly, I share a blog post <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__thesurajsood.com_2017_03_02_shakespearean-2Da-2Di-2Dsoop_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=YHXtBxs7Oqxgc_mn-USVWM6c788fTpFwEjwsaSFeHqk&s=6pTaM8jQJSciDlSX85OhcHn94dpSgE0o6OaxWXl3svY&e=> resulting from a human growth and potential course, and which was incorporated into one of my recent conference articles (The Psychoinformatic Complexity of Humanness and Person-Situation Interaction <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.researchgate.net_publication_327971572-5FThe-5Fpsychoinformatic-5Fcomplexity-5Fof-5Fhumanness-5Fand-5Fperson-2Dsituation-5Finteraction&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=YHXtBxs7Oqxgc_mn-USVWM6c788fTpFwEjwsaSFeHqk&s=z56sXI8lDUfQUP-3uMJhw3fAcEyopJVv3Zx8G9fn858&e=>). I hope these are found to be relevant, here. Looking forward to further ToK discussion! Best regards, Suraj On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 3:13 PM Waldemar Schmidt <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I apologize about the two empty messages. > It was a test to see who was in charge - me or the computer. > It wasn’t me - again! > > *Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD* > (Perseveret et Percipiunt) > 503.631.8044 > > *Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. (A Einstein)* > > On Aug 27, 2019, at 9:02 AM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Hi Folks, > Recall that one facet of the Digital Identity Problem is the > digital-globalization meta-crisis, which refers to the enormous > “game-changer” that the digital landscape will bring us. I think one of the > most dangerous aspect of the digital landscape is that it is so easy to > have it create whatever reality folks want. > > Here is an article by Jordan Peterson on “deep fakes” that gets at a > disturbing aspect of this development. > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nationalpost.com_opinion_jordan-2Dpeterson-2Ddeep-2Dfake&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=YHXtBxs7Oqxgc_mn-USVWM6c788fTpFwEjwsaSFeHqk&s=6BVixugYY5kkB9FaYMB_lLV9Dn9YOw0AyKEDL6N2OwY&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nationalpost.com_opinion_jordan-2Dpeterson-2Ddeep-2Dfake&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=W55_VRf7pgKikHR45aoyvjf2wo_69TJjO0HPdrl262Y&s=MPPTqmm5jxYGJFd3i8ZkK87tc0J59v9Qd9mjjVd4VjM&e=> > > Best, > Gregg > > *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion < > [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Waldemar Schmidt > *Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2019 12:55 PM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: Digital Identity Problem > > Dear TOK discussion friends: > > Many thanks to both Lonnie and Gregg for the comments about mental health > and senior citizens! > > I find the Brookings report illuminating and very disturbing ( > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.brookings.edu_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2017_08_casetextsp17bpea.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=YHXtBxs7Oqxgc_mn-USVWM6c788fTpFwEjwsaSFeHqk&s=cNV3p8YNrifjDSvgvshgX4zV0qaob5nd2q9ba9M7k_4&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.brookings.edu_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2017_08_casetextsp17bpea.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=gg9HskcH4k-a_XPRTrtlq8JS3tRFnysAmDpYG0WAYII&s=9ZMYCkS_xlTRHAAO3e2YWZq8pBoKD_hqUyAHdW5nd8s&e=> > ), > Where the college student suicide problem is well documented that of the > general and mental health of the general USA population doesn’t seem to be > - or, at least, is not as widely available. > The Case and Deaton data are well worth the time spent reading - they > provide objective and temporally-indexed data. > While some may differ with the concept of a *digital identity crisis* it > seems pretty obvious that we are headed there in a big hurry. > > My experience practicing medicine has led me to the concern that we (in > the USA) have been practicing a “way of life” which is inimical to mental > and physical well-being of the general population. > Case and Deaton demonstrate how long this has been going on. > AND, we may objectively compare our “life-style: (if not culture > &worldview) with that of other nations and peoples. > > Is it too much to compare our “cultural outcomes crisis” with the “global > warming crisis?” > The current paths of these two problems have already lead to grim outcomes > - the final “crater” ain’t going to be very pretty! > > Best regards, > > Waldemar > > *Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD* > (Perseveret et Percipiunt) > 503.631.8044 > > *Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. (A Einstein)* > > > On Aug 25, 2019, at 8:19 AM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > Lonnie, > I see the mental health crisis as being quite pervasive and would > consider this observation to fall mostly under the mental health crisis, > although it clearly also connects to the meaning and digital-globalization > crises. My primary question would be: Are we seeing an aggregate shift in > the mental health of the elderly? I have not seen data along those lines. > When I look I see definite, strong aggregate data pointing to a rise in > mental health problems in the youth. There is also good data that the > general and mental health of "lower class" whites has dropped (see here > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.brookings.edu_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2017_08_casetextsp17bpea.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=YHXtBxs7Oqxgc_mn-USVWM6c788fTpFwEjwsaSFeHqk&s=cNV3p8YNrifjDSvgvshgX4zV0qaob5nd2q9ba9M7k_4&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.brookings.edu_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2017_08_casetextsp17bpea.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=gg9HskcH4k-a_XPRTrtlq8JS3tRFnysAmDpYG0WAYII&s=9ZMYCkS_xlTRHAAO3e2YWZq8pBoKD_hqUyAHdW5nd8s&e=> > ). > > So, your point is well taken and your reflections are exactly what I hope > the Digital Identity Problem formulation does, which is provide a > macro-level frame to see the situation we are in and then start to line up > many different patterns in the world to raise our collective consciousness. > > > Thanks much for this reflection. I would be interested in looking over > your dissertation if you feel like sharing it. > > Best, > Gregg > > -----Original Message----- > From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> > On Behalf Of Lonny Meinecke > Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 1:03 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Digital Identity Problem > > Thanks Gregg! > > We might add, as well, a 5th aspect (or subcategory of item 4). There is > an identity crisis and self-worth crisis among the senior community, as we > find ourselves expected to keep up with a rate of cognitive growth (a > selective, amensal growth so to speak) that easily outstrips our > evolutionary capacity (the rate of our commensal growth so to speak). The > need to memorize so many passwords associated with fleeting products and > industries, to intuitively navigate so many different "interfaces" (using > so many different browsers, each trying to avoid the other's copyrighted > design while establishing a single standard), make sweeping gestures that > magically summon hidden items behind glass screens… and so forth. > > I am seeing a recurrent "repertoire" of new expressions of anguish and > anxiety on the faces of elderly persons exhibiting worried cognitive > saccades as they like living rasters try to find the attentional button of > the day. You can watch them as they sweep their heads like turrets from > side to side and top to bottom - the growing fear of failure in their eyes > - the collapse of self worth and admission of burgeoning cognitive > "deficits" because they are expected to intuit what is not remotely > instinctual. Curiously, G Stanley Hall said much the same 100 years ago > about the plight of children (Search, 1901, p. 51-52). > > Nearly every day I hear admissions of insufficient self-worth by persons I > once admired, and not because their abilities have diminished but because > the expectations of a digital world make us all feel outdated and obsolete. > > For our group, I think this offers a chance to challenge our assumptions > in the broad sense, and see if we might foster reverence for what we > biologically are (unique individuated creatures with the need to be valued > by our fellows) more than what we mentally lack (too young to be of any > value, too old to be of any value, or just right to be of temporary value > to society). What do you think? Some of this is in my dissertation's > chapter 5 and based on my method (physical age bias: too young, too old, or > just right and mental age bias: not smart, not smart enough, or just right). > > Thanks! > Lonny > > Reference > > Search, P. W. (1901). An ideal school, or looking forward. In W. T. Harris > (Ed.), International Education Series (Vol. LII, pp. 1-357). New York, NY: > D. 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