Dear Bard
Individualism is not dying. It’s stronger than ever. Individualism was dying in the 40ties with nationalism and communism – now it has found it’s place in market-capitalism. Iphones are not going away, neither is the individual. You are looking the wrong way through the telescope.
On the other hand collectivism is dying and that is a real problem, because we need a societal perspective which is not an infested mammalia. You seem to be on a quest of rebranding collectivism, into tribalism , relationalism and network dynamics. I applaud that, because collectivism is dying and needs a reboot. Therefore you are taking a stand against individualism, because it is antagonistic to collectivism. However, you don’t need to throw the entire thing out. We need both the individual AND the collective.
getting rid of both individualism and collectivism and moving to a larger perspective, doesn’t require us getting rid of the individual or the collective. Both are still important categories and categories we cannot get around.
The Death of God was not permanent. It was temporary. Likewise, if the individual must die ( which I doubt) , then it will rise again in a new form. These are not just constructs of our own invention – they are eternal symbols.
You can’t make an ethical system without the individual unless it’s something very broad and meaningless, which could never actually be applied. As soon as you start applying ethics on specific situations, you always come down to the questions of individuals rights and collective good. Negative rights is where it’s at. Voluntaryism. The idea that aggression against peaceful individuals is immoral and that people should voluntarily organize in networks. That is the basis on a true ethic – and something I’m positive will also have a place in relationalism and network dynamics.
How is it a false dichotomy ? Either you have individual rights or you don’t and if you don’t have individual rights, then someone is limiting your negative rights i.e. freedom to not be infringed upon. If you have the right not to be infringed upon, then you have negative rights. There isn’t a third option here.
best
Elung
________________________________
Fra: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> på vegne af Alexander Bard <[log in to unmask]>
Sendt: Monday, October 14, 2019 8:24:10 PM
Til: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Emne: Re: Basic interactions.
Dear Elung
I don't hate Individualism. I just think it is a crappy religion built on false premises. A historical rewriting of The Death of The Individual is as needed and as warranted as The Death of God.
I have also not used the opposition of The Individual versus The Collective since it is a false dichotomy based on Individualist dogma in itself. Even Immanuel Kant admits that ethics can not be anything but an empty tautology if based on Individualism. You end up being a slave to the system no matter what you do. So tbe question is which system can you use, not how can you avoid it.
Also individual and atom are the same word. Individual is merely the Latin version of the Greek atom. Needless to say, Individualism is tied to Atomism as a combined religion. Both are now dying to be replaced by relationalism and network dynamics. From physics via biology to anthropology. But Individualists will likely not go down without screaming. So be prepared for a bloody mess to come.
Best intentions
Alexander Bard
Den mån 14 okt. 2019 kl 20:04 skrev Alexander Elung <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
Dear Bard
You would loose that argument fairly quickly. I think you have a strong point regarding the divided individual, in the sense that individuality and persona can be understood as a mask of the collective unconscious, which is a deeper perspective. I think you are making an argument against atomism just as Hegel did, but trying to demonize the “individual” as a whole, is a silly mistake.
The concept is simply way to important to just be thrown out. I strongly disagree with your assertion that individuality is entrapment and that it has nothing to do with. Hegel although critical of individualism, was still a defender of individual rights “ freedom of subjectivity”. You aren’t against the concept individual in itself or individual rights. You just think atomism is a limited perspective because you see the tribe as a fundamental unit, which we cannot divide ourselves from. That is the problem of individualist atomism – or the “every man for himself” perspective.
There is no such thing as freedom without individuality, In the same way that rights have no meaning if they aren’t tied to the individual. This has been the basis of jurisprudence in all societies since the dawn of man. All societies has a concept of individual, rights and property in some form or another. Any legal anthropologist worth his salt will tell you that. Even if you have another definition, you would be ignoring 2500 years of recorded legal philosophy and how societies have understood individual members, since the dawn of man. There isn’t a tribe in the world that doesn’t have versions on the concepts; individual rights, property and culpability, which are tied to the individual. Even if your ethics are based on the tribe, you still need a concept for the individual members and their interactions.
Freedom can only be understood as rights of the individual, otherwise the concepts holds no meaning whatsoever. You can’t have freedom if the smallest unit is the tribe itself, since then all the members would have to do what is best for the tribe, regardless of what they individually desired. Ants do not have freedom – they have hiveminds. Every tribe has understood this and members in the tribe have individual rights to do different things. Also, the welfare-state is an expression of collectivism Bard – the exact opposite of individuality.
Try to read some actual individualist literature – like “human action” by Mises. I think you would be surprised, since I know you are also very libertarian minded. You can still hate individualist atomism all you want – but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
best
Elung
________________________________
Fra: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> på vegne af Alexander Bard <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sendt: Monday, October 14, 2019 6:37:41 PM
Til: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Emne: Re: Basic interactions.
Dear Alexander Elung
I would strongly argue that the concept of The Individual is basically a form of entrapment.
It is not tied to any freedom whatsoever but rather a form of ownership by a structure larger than the tribe.
This is why the first individuals were slaves in river valley empires. Opposed by a narcissistic pharaoh-tyrant.
Only later when slaves were too expensive or difficult to maintain, did the concept of an Individual who chooses his submission appear. Basically this is what modernity is.
In this sense, the Cartesian Individual is simply somebody who submits to capital, nation and academia rather than a Christian who submits to the aristocracy, the monarchy and most of all the church.
Later turned into a Kantian autist which is essentially the status of Western Individualism ever since. It is by and large the Anglo-Saxon state religion.
Hegel, Nietzsche, Freud and The American Pragmatists of course do their best to break this up. But to the vast majority, the submission to the welfare-state and consumer society order is too attractive to oppose.
Especially as its current offer is slavery to the system as permanent infantilization.
Best intentions
Alexander Bard
Den mån 14 okt. 2019 kl 14:33 skrev Alexander Elung <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
Dear Bard
Yes I agree that “the individual” is most likely mainly primarily a legalistic construction. But I would also argue that jurisprudence is actually a very broad phenomenon in that respect, which covers many aspects of existence and interaction. As Gregg also argued, the individual is also an important construction in personality psychology.
I’m not sure I see the direct collection with individualism to slavery as I would argue the act of slavery is actually the act removing a persons status as an individual – but the concept of “rights” is directly depending on being able to distinguish the individual from the rest of the tribe.
best
Elung
Fra: Alexander Bard<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sendt: Monday, October 14, 2019 14:00
Til: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Emne: Re: Basic interactions.
Dear Alexander Elung
Agreed. In addition, I firmly believe that "The Individual" was constructed for very straight forward legal purposes.
So that you can push out, lock up, abjectify and in general terrify a body with a mind by "individualizing it". For example is slavery impossible without "individuation" first.
Rites of passage are prior to that historically and instead respond with a much more humane "submission to tribal interests". Which comes with a responsibility toward archetype that contemporary society is lacking. But then such societies do not have slavery since slavery only arrives with large-scale farming and imperialism. And following slavery, individuation and its power opposite, the narcissism of the tyrant.
Therefore I use the term "dividual" which then correctly can also be applied on larger scales (clan, tribe, nation etc). It's just how humans function.
Where I have no desire to participate in the deceitful "game of individuation". I have no interest in being or supporting any slave owner.
Cheerio
Alexander Bard
Den mån 14 okt. 2019 kl 13:12 skrev Alexander Elung <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
I completely agree that the individual is very dividable. When we explore the psyche, we observe how the “ego” actually controls very little compared to the strings being pulled by a plethora of subconscious archetypes all with their own agendas. I also think the entire tribe exists in the psyche as symbolic representations, we then use to project our “world-image” - so in a very real sense we are always divided inviduals.
However there is still something about the “individual” which is non-dividable as a unit, as the “house/body” of the psyche. There are so many uses for that word which cannot just be replaced by dividual, that I think it would be a mistake to let it go entirely.
best
Elung
Fra: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> på vegne af Alexander Bard <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sendt: Monday, October 14, 2019 12:54:32 PM
Til: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Emne: Re: Basic interactions.
We agree.
My suggestion is therefore that our models also reflect our convictions. As a counter-balance to prevalent public and academic opinion.
Why even use the term "individuate" and not just say "dividuate" into "dividuals"? "Individual" means "undividable", so why even use the term when it is blatantly incorrect? Why not piss of the Cartesians instead?
A great idea from Deleuze & Guattari that I have practised ove the past 30 years, for example by developing schizoanalysis as a highly successful analysis treatment.
Why be only one when you can be many? Many people who share the same house/body?
Cheerio
Alexander
Den mån 14 okt. 2019 kl 12:47 skrev Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
My view is that the prototype/ideal US/American identity is excessively focused on the individual, one that makes that makes decisions, independent of emotions and relations. In fact, as attachment theory makes clear we are born in relation. We then individuate from our mothers, as Lene points out.
Best,
G
From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Lene Rachel Andersen - Nordic Bildung / Fremvirke
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 6:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Basic interactions.
I think that anybody who is the parent of a toddler would have plenty of data, particularly during visits to super markets as they pass by the candy section (though that is not an experience widely shared by indigenous hunter-gatherers, of course...)
/ Lene
On 14-10-2019 11:40, Alexander Bard wrote:
When do modern Western toddlers separate their sense of self from their mothers?
Do you have any studies to refer to and how were they conducted?
Psychoanalysis has long put the self-sense-making at the so called mirror stage, and as negation of mother. "Something exists that is not mother".
Whether that really occurs at any sort of mirror or is just another name for the phallic intrusion is a hotly debated topic.
Obviously hard to solve since the subconscious self-sense-making is way deeper and therefore much earlier than any conscious self-sensing.
Phallic intrusion called so since phallus represents that which mother is not in the outside world. Nota bene.
Best
Alexander
Den mån 14 okt. 2019 kl 11:36 skrev Lene Rachel Andersen - Nordic Bildung / Fremvirke <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
Dear men of so many (shared) words,
Is it only modern Western toddlers who separate their sense of self from their mother (and others)?
Best,
Lene
On 14-10-2019 11:21, Alexander Bard wrote:
Dear Gregg
Point taken. And America is also Pragmatism, both Peirce and Whitehead are firmly rooted in community and intersubjectivity (inherited from Hegel).
America would do really well with a huge Pragmatist revival as opposed to today's one-fight-against-everybody vulgar Cartesianism. Isn't that what both you and Zak Stein do already?
My opposition is therefore against your ORDER of things with "Individual" first. Why even start with The Individual? Is that merely because Psychologists's sales-pitches always start as self-help manuals? Or why else?
As Wittgenstein says, we are 100% social, every word we use is borrowed from somebody else. Priority must be given to "colaboration" over "competition" because it is way more correct for humans.
Best
Alexander
Den sön 13 okt. 2019 kl 14:18 skrev Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
Bard,
There is much to be said for understanding the human unit as the Dunbar “socioont” and we in the US, with our history of embracing hyper-individualistic objectivist philosophies like that of Ayn Rand need to see that we are defined by intersubjective dialogue and the movement of the herd in a way that Rand foolishly denies.
However, I think we can go too far in our rejection of the individual. I prefer the Bronfenbrenner socio-ecological lens of concentric circles, from the individual to family to the clan/tribe/community to the nation to the globe.
But the (in)dividual or subjective agent is a fundamental unit. Personality psychology lives in relation to social psych.
G
From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Alexander Bard
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2019 8:09 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Basic interactions.
Dear Waldemar
Acually no.
The "I" primacy is a typically European modernist starting point and not at all universal.
Still the predominant starting point among within American and European middle class discourse.
But again, not at all universal and not even historically relevant outside of the Cartesian-Kantian paradigm that still dominates Western academia but which the Internet Revolution is about to explode.
You see, the rest of the world starts with a tribal we. Usually around the Dubar number of 157. Nothing is less than 157.
So much for "higher perspectives". It rather seems it takes an awful lot of effort for western middle class people to arrive where the rest of humanity starts from.
Wilber is a Cartesian. I would much prefer if we could leave that religious conviction behind or at least not pretend it is a universally valid norm.
And what does behaviporism prove to us if not that we behave as swarms and/or flocks 99,9% of the time? No "individuals" at all in action. But swarms and flocks that at most contain dividuals.
Tthe future belongs to social psychology (like Peterson and Vervaeke) and not individual psychology at all. We are all already social and nothing but social.
Big love
Alexander
Den lör 12 okt. 2019 kl 05:46 skrev Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
Alexander (Bard):
I am reading your works very carefully.
And I value the insights they invoke within me.
Slowly, to be sure, I am trained in medicine and science, not philosophy.
But there are some truths that apply to Puerto Rican mothers of 5, as well as grandfathers of 5, such as myself:
There is an “I”.
There is a relationship of “I” with “I” within “I.”
There is an I-Thou relationship.
There is an I-It relationship.
And we all struggle to keep a balance within those.
That balance requires looking at things such as paradigms.
It won’t put food on the table.
But, it might help to do so with elan.
Nonetheless, keep poking, brother!
Best regards,
Waldemar
Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD
(Perseveret et Percipiunt)
Sent from my iPad
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list:
write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
or click the following link:
http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Cf0d934ccb934409ac9ff08d7509523b4-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066473803435135-26sdata-3DjF-252BZMh6eTxGTEbK7xX80Hh9xdCuAVZPv2OVlqlcFPHo-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dvv_eEOvFzA4i0tTHU10hyRlKGlcFVeG3YzvTN92GR2A%26s%3DQS8khIFwqeTtxqcnK9QMaD7otWdZMX5cna0q-jfjwRk%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010183984&sdata=%2FF6DOHav4SrUilDyy5iSWCmMegpA3N3oamj89y%2FqU%2FI%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Cf0d934ccb934409ac9ff08d7509523b4-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066473803445139-26sdata-3DPs-252FSybdlArczHjEKpwtBJNBuklFeMifT7oZYYwUGYJI-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dvv_eEOvFzA4i0tTHU10hyRlKGlcFVeG3YzvTN92GR2A%26s%3DI88ZOf9Q8mBeePKT0QeMz1ggU-Cwf_qjozWM7p26ZE0%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010193996&sdata=xV0MOCRDDhhujc5r1VXIffm%2Bi3V%2FWfI6UT74Dk8YbzU%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Cf0d934ccb934409ac9ff08d7509523b4-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066473803445139-26sdata-3DPs-252FSybdlArczHjEKpwtBJNBuklFeMifT7oZYYwUGYJI-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dvv_eEOvFzA4i0tTHU10hyRlKGlcFVeG3YzvTN92GR2A%26s%3DI88ZOf9Q8mBeePKT0QeMz1ggU-Cwf_qjozWM7p26ZE0%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010204018&sdata=fFGy%2Fmt1qBrUhLpQ2gG3%2BaSnNDti1WDM4w6eE8mgUT4%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Cf0d934ccb934409ac9ff08d7509523b4-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066473803455144-26sdata-3DbRNSuJZXOoyRm05e7IMOmfcY9ipNnOyqSyczTdeuCy4-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dvv_eEOvFzA4i0tTHU10hyRlKGlcFVeG3YzvTN92GR2A%26s%3Dlp6hCScr-kAJm3VtJVfWNRsMrQUYj9PzJW1tKo28Vmk%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010214013&sdata=coJbAesStNnH%2FMFFWOecnv3u0w0IqGjVEyluVaaOg34%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Cf0d934ccb934409ac9ff08d7509523b4-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066473803465155-26sdata-3DEohoyoFucmrmGKCDh-252F7HjmvBfjWbKusoIv-252FFfPf0rbI-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dvv_eEOvFzA4i0tTHU10hyRlKGlcFVeG3YzvTN92GR2A%26s%3Dvl_MrorsHDAkz0MnidqWPXEUu1SfibXvTnHHCpNumfU%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010224021&sdata=Nn5HqV1Y4TuAIKuC7MzflCJ9ehZHSKOZZvjCV5D%2B2RM%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Cf0d934ccb934409ac9ff08d7509523b4-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066473803475160-26sdata-3DUrRdUuGyMwzjDy9-252FIfigzV6-252BquK3-252FEdjBHXmp52n06E-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dvv_eEOvFzA4i0tTHU10hyRlKGlcFVeG3YzvTN92GR2A%26s%3DNVCP3sU1J5AxLeymswPPlYyb5FKnYQAe-iIyzVtWCJA%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010224021&sdata=zZAz9qnvazifhnz21EOvHQxEWrpUfcefRh8dhL%2FmgV4%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Cf0d934ccb934409ac9ff08d7509523b4-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066473803485170-26sdata-3DUONSE0xPTklXPPOV6a-252FG2JIpGRmvtEj0Am-252F0Q-252B-252BfbXI-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dvv_eEOvFzA4i0tTHU10hyRlKGlcFVeG3YzvTN92GR2A%26s%3D2QCDMUZPmxmp3wx6efWKp9o8dh5RPT0p3zg_YpfjhwA%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010234038&sdata=QBIGxCe7rtBc1QYSST%2BAKD3%2BqNZ7ed50L4JojWczRKs%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Cf0d934ccb934409ac9ff08d7509523b4-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066473803495181-26sdata-3Don4fYlcO0SWeCOkRWjXQNiJaBSCHRv9fEYVl83TyJGU-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dvv_eEOvFzA4i0tTHU10hyRlKGlcFVeG3YzvTN92GR2A%26s%3DXISyjLLdFaygIB20PbcsbnvtGUeL7NeNbrHgqrl0zsY%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010244038&sdata=C8a1LmAs0bkz5bpjn6SpRN2LnkIkd7opiMQ0Vu%2BsA%2FU%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Cf0d934ccb934409ac9ff08d7509523b4-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066473803505186-26sdata-3D8oCffHBs2MH-252F4L0Zu-252F8OrRo5QEdzNlUpFYX9ZPKkENA-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dvv_eEOvFzA4i0tTHU10hyRlKGlcFVeG3YzvTN92GR2A%26s%3D4D6zh878fNamhGlCgiu_wgsmKQ9W-qm0DRWJv25dNf8%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010254046&sdata=Z4XgEKgVtDRCEHVpD1AN8LsS6PjE%2F2Ue3yMeWhLFWUk%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1d35016fa5444f2842f108d7509e0f39-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066512098472146-26sdata-3Dk-252BKcoM-252FYfNj-252F7qNq9HczeFTWr3573q1dtny-252FGFlA6Ys-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Ds8Pigtj65ZcVCLipehMVLEdlHxcTP4mmdRSThAnewT4%26s%3Dh8KThg_jyVK3EsE358hHIJI99VwSIDAXUVWLJ3vfj3w%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010264050&sdata=L8HIoJlQZTfTKkoqTY3lUk4tZ%2BT85x5y7b2bX8sLXpw%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1d35016fa5444f2842f108d7509e0f39-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066512098472146-26sdata-3Dk-252BKcoM-252FYfNj-252F7qNq9HczeFTWr3573q1dtny-252FGFlA6Ys-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Ds8Pigtj65ZcVCLipehMVLEdlHxcTP4mmdRSThAnewT4%26s%3Dh8KThg_jyVK3EsE358hHIJI99VwSIDAXUVWLJ3vfj3w%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010274063&sdata=MGM86rOk4FQnJ3qMYFJlR66ukvbIewDQpNmjRDvnD%2Bo%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Ce30e982227f047a7926008d750c4f478-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066679152613432-26sdata-3DC7ifKCQ78kP0eJ-252BY4E77CZMh2AoBRfkjz44C9JHJnn4-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dc85TMUeO6PHTQGG6kjNvRfSfbmgJQROBGfg5Xxu3VZE%26s%3DdMyko2OvXLf9qILoDBuihBDfUHK0ScAU-k16xHmCGvk%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010274063&sdata=9ZuLur1wCIT%2Fntq%2FSIxxhfauPLG2dKHa9mMpphOsX9o%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257Ce30e982227f047a7926008d750c4f478-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066679152613432-26sdata-3DC7ifKCQ78kP0eJ-252BY4E77CZMh2AoBRfkjz44C9JHJnn4-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3DeLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0%26r%3DHPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A%26m%3Dc85TMUeO6PHTQGG6kjNvRfSfbmgJQROBGfg5Xxu3VZE%26s%3DdMyko2OvXLf9qILoDBuihBDfUHK0ScAU-k16xHmCGvk%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637066743010284076&sdata=mu5Q4hSmdsIPTr3OKow6K4ARL7vku0QGwtgT2Oznokw%3D&reserved=0>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066743010294075-26sdata-3DCBS8fpHpB81fbuYbrWQpzhHep5CGpndxJfOWaywXCrE-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=ov6osY6hd9L84WPgAQI2mMIKdRLRoatJs_qAyXlbTa4&s=5Hql6WmryFgZwjwj7_VCgSnCVq_qKFvKjLCpl3oQTHo&e=>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Flistserv.jmu.edu-252Fcgi-2Dbin-252Fwa-253FSUBED1-253DTOK-2DSOCIETY-2DL-2526A-253D1-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C9977106f1773457e368a08d750d3d2be-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C637066743010294075-26sdata-3DCBS8fpHpB81fbuYbrWQpzhHep5CGpndxJfOWaywXCrE-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIF-g&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=ov6osY6hd9L84WPgAQI2mMIKdRLRoatJs_qAyXlbTa4&s=5Hql6WmryFgZwjwj7_VCgSnCVq_qKFvKjLCpl3oQTHo&e=>
############################
To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list:
write to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
or click the following link:
http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1