Bard,

  There is much to be said for understanding the human unit as the Dunbar “socioont” and we in the US, with our history of embracing hyper-individualistic objectivist philosophies like that of Ayn Rand need to see that we are defined by intersubjective dialogue and the movement of the herd in a way that Rand foolishly denies.

 

  However, I think we can go too far in our rejection of the individual. I prefer the Bronfenbrenner socio-ecological lens of concentric circles, from the individual to family to the clan/tribe/community to the nation to the globe.

 

  But the (in)dividual or subjective agent is a fundamental unit. Personality psychology lives in relation to social psych.


G

 

From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Alexander Bard
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2019 8:09 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Basic interactions.

 

Dear Waldemar

 

Acually no.

The "I" primacy is a typically European modernist starting point and not at all universal.

Still the predominant starting point among within American and European middle class discourse.

But again, not at all universal and not even historically relevant outside of the Cartesian-Kantian paradigm that still dominates Western academia but which the Internet Revolution is about to explode.

You see, the rest of the world starts with a tribal we. Usually around the Dubar number of 157. Nothing is less than 157.

So much for "higher perspectives". It rather seems it takes an awful lot of effort for western middle class people to arrive where the rest of humanity starts from.

Wilber is a Cartesian. I would much prefer if we could leave that religious conviction behind or at least not pretend it is a universally valid norm.

And what does behaviporism prove to us if not that we behave as swarms and/or flocks 99,9% of the time? No "individuals" at all in action. But swarms and flocks that at most contain dividuals.

Tthe future belongs to social psychology (like Peterson and Vervaeke) and not individual psychology at all. We are all already social and nothing but social.

 

Big love

Alexander

 

Den lör 12 okt. 2019 kl 05:46 skrev Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD <[log in to unmask]>:

Alexander (Bard):

I am reading your works very carefully.
And I value the insights they invoke within me.
Slowly, to be sure, I am trained in medicine and science, not philosophy.
But there are some truths that apply to Puerto Rican mothers of 5, as well as grandfathers of 5, such as myself:

     There is an “I”.
     There is a relationship of “I” with “I” within “I.”
     There is an I-Thou relationship.
     There is an I-It relationship.

And we all struggle to keep a balance within those.
That balance requires looking at things such as paradigms.
It won’t put food on the table.
But, it might help to do so with elan.

Nonetheless, keep poking, brother!


Best regards,

Waldemar



Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD
(Perseveret et Percipiunt)
Sent from my iPad

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