Hi Waldemar,

Thank-you for your kind words.

Considering you're expertise is in the biological sciences, I would suspect it would be easier for you to frame information processing in terms information metabolism, as opposed to using the conventional computer metaphor of cognitive psychology.

I've often wondered how well Model A in socionics would "map onto" the ToK ---- particularly, the "Ego block" on the Mind-to-Culture joint point, considering that Gregg has conceptualized the Ego as the mental organ of Justification. Add to that the concept of information metabolism, and Model A maps onto the ToK even more, insofar that the concept of information metabolism corresponds with BIT.

Plus, it was the person who developed Model A that drew an analogy between introversion and extraversion on the one hand, and objects and fields (respectively) on the other, which corresponds nicely with Gregg's conceptualization of behavior as a change in the object-field relationship.

And Model A was also influenced by Jung's theory of psychological types. Jung's motivation for doing so was to explore the differences between Freud and Adler's theories by exploring the differences in their personalities --- or to put it in socionics terms: were their theoretical differences were a reflection of them being two different sociotypes who metabolized information differently? There was a spirit of theoretical unification there, and theoretical unification is what the ToK is ultimately all about.

I also looked at your slide presentation, "Whence and Whither Knowledge" and wonder how much correspondence between Model A and your chart on "Getting from Data to Wisdom" there is. For example, in the Awareness column, you mention conscious & unconscious, which correspond with the mental & vital rings of Model A, respectively. Also, (looking at another one of your charts) perhaps the 16 sociotypes could be thought of as healthy types, but could be conceptualized as 16 unhealthy types (i.e., 16 psychiatric disorders), when functioning at a pathological extreme, (e.g., disruptions in information metabolism as Kepinski suggested?)

~ Jason

On Monday, February 10, 2020, 12:12:41 PM EST, Waldemar Schmidt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

And, hence, Lene, it is the evolution of symbols which forms the basis of change in Culture, n’est pas?

Am VERY MUCH enjoying your book BTW!

It’s a wonderful match with the Futurica Trilogy.

So enlightening to see multiple facets of the same history.

Jason:  thank you for sharing your insights into Information Metabolism.

I have been working some with that and socionics.

Your perspective has helped me A LOT in acquiring understanding of both - your thoughts have come at just the right time for me.

AND, there is a wonderful intersection with Lene’s Metamodernism and Cultural evolution.

What a great list serve - thanks, Gregg!

Best regards,

Waldemar

Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD
(Perseveret et Percipiunt)
503.631.8044

Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. (A Einstein)

On Feb 10, 2020, at 8:31 AM, nysa71 <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Gregg,

It is interesting that you brought up Vervaeke's exploration of Jung's analysis of archetypes. It is from socionics where I first read of the concept of "information metabolism", and socionics is based on both information metabolism and Jung's theory of psychological types, discussed both here and here. 

Lene,

In the article linked in my initial post on the evolution of metabolism, the author mentions "food-sharing" as a possible correlate in the evolution of human (energy) metabolic evolution. Perhaps we could think of how symbols/language helped accelerate the evolution of human information metabolic evolution in regards to information-sharing. Perhaps this could be thought of as a feedback-loop between the evolution of energy-metabolism and information-metabolism over the course of human phylogeny.

~ Jason

 

On Monday, February 10, 2020, 10:11:50 AM EST, Lene Rachel Andersen - Nordic Bildung / Fremvirke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Very cool indeed!

So what would culture and the 4th dimension be? symbols?

Now if we were to think of symbols metabolism, then a basic definition could be:

• the symbols processes that occur with a society in order to maintain culture

This would correspond with the 4th dimension of the ToK (Culture)

Best,

Lene

On 10-02-2020 15:59, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx wrote:

Very cool, Jason.

 

I will need to sit on this, but I think you are definitely onto something.

 

Indeed, I think John Vervaeke would find this interesting. I am on his 49^th lecture (one to go!), where he is exploring Jung’s analysis of archetypes as the forms we have potential of becoming. They could be the information processing architectural frames that enable us to metabolize information in a “relevant realization” (Vervaeke’s term) to way guide our becoming.

 

More later.

Best,
Gregg

 

From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of nysa71
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 9:41 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Information Processing Vs. Information Metabolism and BIT

 

Hi ToK Society,

For some time now,I've been intrigued by the concept of "information metabolism", proposed by Polish psychiatrist, Antoni Kepinski.

It's an interesting metaphor. It's conventional in cognitive psychology to compare the mind to a computer, using the concept of information processing. But perhaps using a biological metaphor would be better as opposed to a technological metaphor. Indeed, perhaps it would be more useful in the development of BIT.

If we were to think of energy metabolism, then a basic dictionary definition would be:

• the chemical processes that occur within a living organism in order to maintain life

This would correspond with the 2nd dimension of the ToK (Life)

Now if we were to think of information metabolism, then a basic definition could be:

• the informational processes that occur with an animal in order to maintain mind

This would correspond with the 3rd dimension of the ToK (Mind)

Furthermore, we could potentially reflect upon the energy metabolism of the brain, the information metabolism of the mind, and the feedback loop between the two, mediated by the neuron.

And there's the evolution of metabolism to consider, as discussed in this article. It is life that evolves, not computers,(the analogy typically made by cognitive psychologists). Perhaps this could be another reason to think in terms of information metabolism --- that is, in terms of the evolution/phylogeny of information metabolism.

Just a few thoughts.

~ Jason

 

 

 

 

 

 

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