Indeed. I’ll add that I do see the overlap of conceptual confusion discussed here with what we were discussing in the other thread. Best, Cole On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 9:55 AM Michael Mascolo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Joan: > > Your “stark” example makes the point very well. Thank you. > > M. > > *Michael F. Mascolo, Ph.D.* > Academic Director, Compass Program > Professor, Department of Psychology > Merrimack College, North Andover, MA 01845 > 978.837.3503 (office) > 978.979.8745 (cell) > > Political Conversations Study: *www.CreatingCommonGround.org > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.creatingcommonground.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=gQH6ZAlD36eTLIeJ5tnkCEmcxEjX_Kr6s7sYdYUmVnY&s=cETVOeZ2mblq_VnkVqtCW7EYe6CSqs7QuYX9VPaDRGc&e=>* > Blog: Values Matter > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_us_blog_values-2Dmatter&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=gQH6ZAlD36eTLIeJ5tnkCEmcxEjX_Kr6s7sYdYUmVnY&s=CSdUjSk6Eyz8bfmp2ieyqRAdW8HZBgVP_Q4vA0EKNOA&e=> > Journal: Pedagogy and the Human Sciences > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__scholarworks.merrimack.edu_phs_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=gQH6ZAlD36eTLIeJ5tnkCEmcxEjX_Kr6s7sYdYUmVnY&s=wLAdB6hzjlJ09TK1bClHMF4KdottPHAoSV58b0Ruhtw&e=> > Coaching and Author Website: www.michaelmascolo.com > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.michaelmascolo.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=gQH6ZAlD36eTLIeJ5tnkCEmcxEjX_Kr6s7sYdYUmVnY&s=4iCZSTFGKRkQErcLUBl6Ou2ORMVWWAnQGOJ5pJF6Uhw&e=> > Academia Home Page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__merrimack.academia.edu_MichaelMascolo&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=c7QFgXf4356sH6j3XyUoysImOSUL-BY0w7I4w7__RIc&s=Uxy2qFRzzlgiyvEWpgkec0bqeEo9mjzIPHguSAzti5U&e= > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__merrimack.academia.edu_MichaelMascolo&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=gQH6ZAlD36eTLIeJ5tnkCEmcxEjX_Kr6s7sYdYUmVnY&s=vOErW2j1eA8v8dvju8uTHrh0yDZID2toSxHLtBnsovI&e=> > > "*Things move, persons act.*" -- Kenneth Burke > "*If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing well*." -- Donald Hebb > > On Jul 22, 2020, at 9:02 AM, Joan Walton <[log in to unmask] > <[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Hi Lee, I think this is a really important point to make, and I'm sure > would apply to other concepts which many of us would assume have a shared > meaning. (Just think what happens when people decide to try to define what > is meant by 'love', how many different kinds of love there are, etc). > > The meaning we give to a word such as 'justice' is not just a case of > determining prototype, which in itself creates challenges. I would suggest > that the main difficulty lies in the fact that what any of us mean by > justice depends both on our ontological view of the world (our theory of > being), and the values that derive from that ontology. So if we have a > Gaian ontology, where we believe that everything and everyone is > interconnected, and all things / living things / human beings (select > whichever accords with your ontological view) have equal value, then > justice will be about the action that needs to be taken to ensure that the > belief that you have about the nature of the world is put into practice. > > However, if you have an objectivist, Newtonian mechanistic worldview, > which is complemented by a neoliberal ideology, which reflects the > principle of market forces, then you have a worldview that assumes - and > indeed encourages that - there will be winners and losers. In that sense, > 'justice' presumably is action that ensures that everyone has an equal > chance to become either a winner or a loser! > > I realise I am giving rather stark examples to make a point, but the main > point is that - because there is no means of getting to the stage where we > all agree about answers to fundamental questions to do with the origins, > purpose etc of our lives - we have no shared 'model of reality' - then > there is no way of agreeing what words such as justice mean, because > meanings of concepts such as these, and the worldviews of the people using > the concepts, are too intricately interrelated. > > In the context in which I work, people will start by giving their own > understanding of justice / social justice (accepting that there is no > 'objective' universal definition), and proceed to write / research from > that basis. In this context, it is - as you suggest - useful to identify > what kind of justice you're talking about - e.g. restorative justice - but > again, even slightly tighter terms will still be subject to ontological / > values-based assumptions, which I suggest would still need explaining. > > But it's an important conversation to have, because too many people feel > that a shared definition is possible, and usually assume that the > definition they hold is the one all others should have! > > Best wishes > > Joan > > > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 at 13:06, Leland Beaumont <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> Thanks for a great presentation. >> >> >> >> I want to better communicate an idea I struggled to express during the >> Monday night forum. >> >> >> >> The idea is that “we have no consistent prototype for the word ‘justice’”. >> >> >> >> How do we learn the meaning of words? In the example of the word “tree” >> we learn this that and the other are trees, and bushes, shrubs, flowers, >> grass and cell towers are not trees. From these specific examples our >> language brains construct a protype to link to the word (symbol) “tree”. >> >> >> >> Contrast this with learning the word “justice” How can we point to >> examples of justice? A few examples form the past few months include neck >> kneeling, commuting the sentences of Rodger Stone, and kidnapping >> demonstrators. A broader sample ranges from “an eye for an eye” to broad >> reparations. Theories of justice include retribution, restoration, >> remuneration, rehabilitation, and more. I contend the we don’t share any >> single concept that converges to the word “justice”. Equating justice with >> fairness is problematic because fairness itself is at least three >> concepts >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Understanding-5FFairness&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=O4f8TKrpHsvR2X0jU_l3N-S0WH1DcjFrC2kURd02sv8&s=aqCFcfC9iiOLvB_j0_gwgyz0RLcikm76V0bmlrot04k&e=>. >> We also need to ask “justice for whom”, “justice when” and “justice why”.. >> >> >> >> While Waldemar described the difficulty learners (think young children) >> have in grasping abstract concepts, I contend that the lack of a broadly >> accepted prototype for various abstract words (such as “Justice”) is a >> large part of the problem. The word “Justice” is a composite of different >> concepts and these differing concepts need to be extracted separately and >> named separately to allow us to form a language prototype for each. >> >> >> >> One approach might be to differentiate diverse classes of actions that we >> now call “justice” and to take care to use that more specifically >> descriptive word in our communications. For example, we can take care to >> use terms such as “retributive justice” or “restorative justice”. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Lee Beaumont >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion < >> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Waldemar Schmidt >> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:24 PM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: We Thrive TOK Meeting on Communication >> >> >> >> I have no objection. >> >> I enjoyed the opportunity to contribute. >> >> >> >> *Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD* >> (Perseveret et Percipiunt) >> 503.631.8044 >> >> *Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. (A Einstein)* >> >> >> >> On Jul 21, 2020, at 6:25 AM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx < >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> Thanks so much to Waldemar for his excellent presentation on >> Communication, Language, and Abstraction and the kind of thinking we need >> for the 21st Century. I will be posting the video of it tomorrow unless >> any of the participants object. >> >> >> Warm regards, >> Gregg >> >> >> >> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion < >> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Waldemar Schmidt >> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 7:01 PM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: We Thrive TOK Meeting on Communication >> >> >> >> Dear Friends: >> >> >> >> Thank you each and all for listening and participating. >> >> I have a couple of articles you might find interesting. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> >> Waldemar >> >> >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> >> >> *Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD* >> (Perseveret et Percipiunt) >> 503.631.8044 >> >> *Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. (A Einstein)* >> >> >> >> >> On Jul 20, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx < >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> We are meeting in 15 minutes to hear Waldemar walk us through his >> thoughts on communication. Here is the link: >> >> Join Zoom Meeting >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__us02web.zoom.us_j_88338698330-3Fpwd-3DYlluQzBCajFEUFZvYWphM0FITTI3dz09&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=c7QFgXf4356sH6j3XyUoysImOSUL-BY0w7I4w7__RIc&s=FG3140wlPQRKxQ_QsG7ppSyeyG_KIMOolUbq5Y0e1rk&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__us02web.zoom.us_j_88338698330-3Fpwd-3DYlluQzBCajFEUFZvYWphM0FITTI3dz09&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=Jsy9PSPCYTTXtNquWdYgDV5w6QQLlfCuqQQQCZSVb0A&s=txibAcxQ4DctJ3iGGbzk52YtVV_gXqN-lFvBIBhvE5k&e=> >> >> >> Meeting ID: 883 3869 8330 >> Passcode: 801059 >> One tap mobile >> +13126266799,,88338698330#,,,,,,0#,,801059# US (Chicago) >> +16465588656,,88338698330#,,,,,,0#,,801059# US (New York) >> >> Dial by your location >> +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago) >> +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) >> +1 301 715 8592 US (Germantown) >> +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston) >> +1 669 900 9128 US (San Jose) >> +1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma) >> Meeting ID: 883 3869 8330 >> Passcode: 801059 >> Find your local number: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__us02web.zoom.us_u_kdpUR81r2D&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=c7QFgXf4356sH6j3XyUoysImOSUL-BY0w7I4w7__RIc&s=Mem9aFSD1uHPcHVaE9yx_8UMJ4kjD_MsHevshJruwmE&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__us02web.zoom.us_u_kdpUR81r2D&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=Jsy9PSPCYTTXtNquWdYgDV5w6QQLlfCuqQQQCZSVb0A&s=gyRR7mq57jo3udXehgOErTDwjsDqdl4-4_TUMmUmTIk&e=> >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the > following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the > following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > -- Cole Butler Research Coordinator Project Coordinator: Treating Parents with ADHD and their Children (TPAC <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__umdadhd.org_ongoing-2Dprojects-2Dand-2Dfunding&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=c7QFgXf4356sH6j3XyUoysImOSUL-BY0w7I4w7__RIc&s=w3NPUvyHXitIUEwx9QJ4Kw314_3N4OODW91OYybQrO0&e= >) SUCCEEDS <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__umdadhd.org_succeeds&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=c7QFgXf4356sH6j3XyUoysImOSUL-BY0w7I4w7__RIc&s=L2dck42rBr1r2E9Tqm28-MXBTCZ2SJCASXl62FG6wHE&e= > Coach University of Maryland UMD ADHD Lab <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.umdadhd.org_cole&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=c7QFgXf4356sH6j3XyUoysImOSUL-BY0w7I4w7__RIc&s=NW1721M2TZk1XWx13u-iiFsWCBk4V78IWFunHzxWtPQ&e= > 2103W, Cole Field House | College Park, MD 20742 tel 301.405.6163 ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1