Lee, I did enjoy your presentation, and I hope that I did not come off in any sort of pejorative sense; most all of your material was entirely valid from your ontological and epistomological perspectives, which on a certain level I do hold to be crucial to the optimal development of humankind. In making my comment about the radically nondual perspective I merely wished to convey a perspective akin to yours that by definition empiricism cannot account for (I.e., that the shape of the earth is irrelevant in the absence of an 'apparently' independent conscious observer whose experience is inherently subjective). I do hope for more stimulating discussion around this and related topics such as free will and evolution in the future. Best, Nik Lattanzio On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 2:03 PM Rob Scott <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Thanks, Lee! Appreciate the reference materials. > > I will lovingly add that I'm not tracking how the age of the earth makes > human perception moot. > > I'm curious if you are able to investigate if you're holding onto > any beliefs on this topic (what I would call "assuredness of meaning"). > That might be interesting, especially since your proposal is that we choose > our beliefs. > > Are you capable, as an example, of choosing to believe that both > subjective and objective experiences arise together and both play a part in > navigating the world successfully? (Instead of objective reality making > subjective reality moot due to age/realism/whatever...) > > Just curious. Might be fun as an exercise. > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 2:08 PM Leland Beaumont <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> Thanks, I enjoyed the thoughtful discussion. >> >> Based on what I learned I need to: >> >> 1. Create a short glossary that helps to more clearly define terms >> including reality, facts, truth, belief, and perhaps others. >> 2. I now recognize that much of our discussion arose because many of >> you (as Psychologists) begin with an individual’s perception as your >> starting point for solving problems. I begin with the universe as it is >> prior to the emergence of humans or independent of the observations (and >> therefore perceptions) of humans. For example, the earth has been roughly >> the shape it is today for the past few billion years, so discussion of >> human perception is moot as it pertains to that fact. These are often >> called “brute facts”. I mentioned my essay “Perceptions are Personal” >> pertains to this, and is available at: >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Facing-5FFacts_Perceptions-5Fare-5FPersonal&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=21xPtFwnjE9WZMuiObxjP-GgZZRg2UwKu0STaa5WZKY&s=kztXmSCWHqB2HBg52rTxuYwKdve42kDJMXh7XyXcnPk&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Facing-5FFacts_Perceptions-5Fare-5FPersonal&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=ZZfygDu2PxZpBkwnQJCiF8mUpGkMbMirwv4DOW6UxE8&s=_xtiSshTY9WQrM-VdqNs_sKDSSBx_oUjiv5yg6GrS3o&e=> >> I contrast brute facts with social constructs in the course “Exploring >> Social Constructs” See: >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Exploring-5FSocial-5FConstructs&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=21xPtFwnjE9WZMuiObxjP-GgZZRg2UwKu0STaa5WZKY&s=rE7Bzjg4yRsIajGLgLbJji_j810QTO0isIU2cfXPqOg&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Exploring-5FSocial-5FConstructs&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=ZZfygDu2PxZpBkwnQJCiF8mUpGkMbMirwv4DOW6UxE8&s=z8Zjnb0rc8kKl7QQkj2HMqrjBoZSDb7JCp33erLoamQ&e=> >> I will work to become more clear in describing this. >> 3. Rob’s comment about the deeply held beliefs of some of his clients >> that “they are not deserving” (or something like that I forget the exact >> quote) is an important insight I gained from our discussion. (Gregg also >> mentioned beliefs he learned as a youngster). I am working to write an >> essay tentatively titled “Beliefs Unchosen” to explore this more deeply. >> Certainly the human tendency to fear snakes, and beliefs that have been >> reinforced through classical and operant conditioning cannot be consciously >> abandoned and changed. There are other forms of “indoctrination” that I >> need to better understand. I need to study this more and carve this out of >> my bold claim that “We choose our beliefs” I had in mind the politician >> that takes to the stump to praise white supremacy or deny climate change. >> These are beliefs (or at least strategic talking points) that are >> consciously chosen, harmful, and false. >> 4. Rob asked for references for the “Intellectual Virtues” I showed. >> An important reference is the book *Virtues of the Mind: An Inquiry >> into the Nature of Virtue and the Ethical Foundations of Knowledge,* >> By Linda Zagzebski. I cover these ideas in more depth at: >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Seeking-5FTrue-5FBeliefs&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=21xPtFwnjE9WZMuiObxjP-GgZZRg2UwKu0STaa5WZKY&s=q4UmmiZntFF42Q43LFF99Ltxk7iUFVGOWEFQeyvxZQY&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Seeking-5FTrue-5FBeliefs&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=ZZfygDu2PxZpBkwnQJCiF8mUpGkMbMirwv4DOW6UxE8&s=H4gjmpVtxWsroy9dvCy7E2kfNO_wQTrqtqOzONOgtes&e=> >> >> >> >> Thanks for the opportunity and your engagement. >> >> >> >> Lee Beaumont >> >> >> >> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion < >> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Rob Scott >> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2020 12:22 PM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: Announcement: Seeking Real Good on July 27 with Lee >> Beaumont >> >> >> >> Me too. Really enjoyed the presentation and the discussion. >> >> >> >> Thank you again, Lee! >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 12:20 PM Michael Mascolo <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> I second Waldemar’s words of praise. >> >> >> >> M. >> >> >> >> *Michael F. Mascolo, Ph.D.* >> Academic Director, Compass Program >> >> Professor, Department of Psychology >> Merrimack College, North Andover, MA 01845 >> 978.837.3503 (office) >> 978.979.8745 (cell) >> >> >> >> *Political Conversations Study: www.CreatingCommonGround.org >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.creatingcommonground.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=oF9QyVZJRoiaTayGCczS4rJOUTYdqcWmHO39ENE8DDk&s=HGUf-qoIunuCsAPrqaX1OGWXvDj7XSs_Ni0lMoRyiTI&e=>* >> >> *Blog: Values Matter >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_us_blog_values-2Dmatter&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=oF9QyVZJRoiaTayGCczS4rJOUTYdqcWmHO39ENE8DDk&s=mdih0-GBGr0J4xLi1EpCJ3FQ0bCrbwg18aoTGMnA8Z8&e=>* >> >> *Journal: Pedagogy and the Human Sciences >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__scholarworks.merrimack.edu_phs_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=oF9QyVZJRoiaTayGCczS4rJOUTYdqcWmHO39ENE8DDk&s=6Avkca3SB7X2uiW8O_54g6t0X6xrSuxt9jJlmxr1Yos&e=>* >> >> *Coaching and Author Website: www.michaelmascolo.com >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.michaelmascolo.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=oF9QyVZJRoiaTayGCczS4rJOUTYdqcWmHO39ENE8DDk&s=t38SVe6yV4jp8O5YmD36f1GPN6VkkvP1NucX_ddNIco&e=>* >> >> *Academia Home Page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__merrimack.academia.edu_MichaelMascolo&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=21xPtFwnjE9WZMuiObxjP-GgZZRg2UwKu0STaa5WZKY&s=NUZiJYjB4Z5l2YSCN_eDG17HM1-VEmsvptONn2aFTfI&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__merrimack.academia.edu_MichaelMascolo&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=oF9QyVZJRoiaTayGCczS4rJOUTYdqcWmHO39ENE8DDk&s=zSacHKu-LQIIY8jvtlWJcRR5N0UXzB9TjTdUspy1V-Q&e=>* >> >> >> "*Things move, persons act.*" -- Kenneth Burke >> >> "*If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing well*." -- Donald Hebb >> >> >> >> On Jul 28, 2020, at 12:02 PM, Waldemar Schmidt <[log in to unmask] >> <[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >> >> >> >> That was a fine presentation and great discussion. >> >> Much practical use in what Lee presented. >> >> Thank you, Lee. >> >> >> >> *Waldemar A Schmidt, PhD, MD* >> (Perseveret et Percipiunt) >> 503.631.8044 >> >> *Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. (A Einstein)* >> >> >> >> On Jul 27, 2020, at 7:16 AM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx < >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Just a reminder that Lee B’s Seeking Real Good presentation is today at >> 5:30 pm. >> >> >> >> Will send the link out at 5:15 pm per usual… >> >> >> Best, >> >> Gregg >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx >> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2020 6:11 AM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> >> *Subject:* Announcement: Seeking Real Good on July 27 with Lee Beaumont >> >> >> >> Dear TOK Thrive Community: >> >> >> >> I am happy to announce that Lee Beaumont will be leading the TOK Thrive >> Community toward Seeking Real Good. Attached are some slides. An essay >> summarizing the topic is on-line at: SeekingRealGood.com >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.SeekingRealGood.com&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=wjF8cZoiFchamTuxBdDEmw&m=2X67KHQqiWJruv-OnA39hI5S8b-pt0EFn0_oNxXKqbY&s=XJ_NHv5jroRXrEyr401ERo067VhDYZC4siLamPFn0R0&e=>. >> If you are curious about Lee, a short, relevant resume is at: >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wisdompage.org_leland-2Dr-2Dbeaumont-2Dmsee_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=21xPtFwnjE9WZMuiObxjP-GgZZRg2UwKu0STaa5WZKY&s=1subj9slCHkF8rUOSFcHorMH3MovXTmTMQ1xHh1b_ok&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wisdompage.org_leland-2Dr-2Dbeaumont-2Dmsee_&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=wjF8cZoiFchamTuxBdDEmw&m=2X67KHQqiWJruv-OnA39hI5S8b-pt0EFn0_oNxXKqbY&s=I07Q7zsTb1CWoirDdKotEpGa3fcVd0PoLvuduhcYdnc&e=>. >> The materials the talk is based on are linked from the “Applied Wisdom” >> curriculum of Wikiversity (See: >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Wisdom_Curriculum&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=21xPtFwnjE9WZMuiObxjP-GgZZRg2UwKu0STaa5WZKY&s=sY-wiRNOFjgfJz-SQRwjsT7R3p3hlEP4v39dI8mnbMY&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Wisdom_Curriculum&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=wjF8cZoiFchamTuxBdDEmw&m=2X67KHQqiWJruv-OnA39hI5S8b-pt0EFn0_oNxXKqbY&s=ZC0oQ6jExVyCYRfipiMlMjON2BqwHqjPVy9xIXGM4b8&e=>). >> Many of the slide titles refer to one of these courses. They are all freely >> available on-line. His newest essay “Choosing My Beliefs” is on-line at: >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Knowing-5FHow-5FYou-5FKnow_gallery_Choosing-5Fmy-5Fbeliefs&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=21xPtFwnjE9WZMuiObxjP-GgZZRg2UwKu0STaa5WZKY&s=aNzfjA4-z__htJWMXf2075HQaixYh6Qj0dX1W1Tk54s&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikiversity.org_wiki_Knowing-5FHow-5FYou-5FKnow_gallery_Choosing-5Fmy-5Fbeliefs&d=DwMFAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=wjF8cZoiFchamTuxBdDEmw&m=2X67KHQqiWJruv-OnA39hI5S8b-pt0EFn0_oNxXKqbY&s=RYorguxKfrVFvh_Kf_Alfugo8omFekl7i5GnqLDnbP0&e=> >> >> >> >> I think this will be an interesting exploration. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Gregg >> >> >> >> ___________________________________________ >> >> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D. >> Professor >> Department of Graduate Psychology >> 216 Johnston Hall >> MSC 7401 >> James Madison University >> Harrisonburg, VA 22807 >> (540) 568-7857 (phone) >> (540) 568-4747 (fax) >> >> >> *Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.* >> >> Check out my Theory of Knowledge blog at Psychology Today at: >> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_blog_theory-2Dknowledge&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=21xPtFwnjE9WZMuiObxjP-GgZZRg2UwKu0STaa5WZKY&s=GjWzgY_eRBPCDtD2o96jRfpamWGlvFMVg4MH73XqnWY&e= >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_blog_theory-2Dknowledge&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=TdpelzdNwH8hWIg2N_NRKjmFHvhLzinz3Cl3wnH_Hjg&s=VQ-BzxMpal3zrYcVGyEYMalykzeFHY8ZVs5zEnK0hF4&e=> >> >> >> >> Check out my webpage at: >> >> www.gregghenriques.com >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gregghenriques.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=TdpelzdNwH8hWIg2N_NRKjmFHvhLzinz3Cl3wnH_Hjg&s=6mj455nOJAvgiMwhz6yegu_JLqQghaevhfotkuXK--A&e=> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the > following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1