Yes James, and thank you for naming just the tip of the iceberg. So many issues and concerns here that are not cool or to be taken lightly. I am hoping many people on this list see and understand the many potential problems with this... many of which are culturally and epistemologically co-emergent with issues that Lonny may be referring to, namely our deep cultural avoidance of and fear of death... We certainly have not seen anything yet, but many unanswered questions are pertinent as to whether what we see will be 'good' or not. On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 2:26 PM Brent Allsop <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > The main issue is simply immortality. Obviously the richest will be the > first ones able to afford it. But surely, a few decades after that, most > everyone will be able to afford it. But what happens till most everyone > can afford it? > > People are worried about the cost of health care now. None of what people > are talking about now, trying to resolve the cost of health care, has > anything to do with how much it's going to cost in 10 and 20 years. > During the transition, not everyone is going to be able to afford it, > simple as that. Sure, it's going to be WAY expensive, but life is worth > it. Again, you ain't seen nothing yet. > > Brent > > > > On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 12:04 PM James Lyons-Weiler < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Let us account for the potential abuses and ethical challenges... Should >> we hack the brain with portable external plugins that increase net >> intelligence? If we do, the rich will benefit by being able to afford the >> most capacity and upgrades. Will there one day be external memory, also >> with the cultural divide on capacity and access? Will there be an >> externalization of perception of "self"? Can such technology be hijacked >> for illicit use, to change political views, or force specific consumer >> decisions or lifestyle preferences? >> >> Cool, yes. Grist for the mill of dystopian sci fi concepts? By the dozen. >> >> IMHO, there are major questions that must be answered before human trials. >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 1:55 PM Brent Allsop <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >>> Yea, I think all that stuff is great. They mentioned others that have >>> been doing similar interfaces, like the “Utah Array >>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Microelectrode-5Farray&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=QkudZVqEaqUW44qoicXAix6aXwPgnuGc2J4nQE3WYGQ&s=ZAJL9GQpU5JabI4FRRWBFo_9uyZRGG_6dSAVsFvg3Sk&e=>” >>> helping blind people see and so on. And of course, as they always say: >>> “You aint seen nothing yet.” And as he said: “The future is going to be >>> ‘weird’. We think our lives are very different from people that live a few >>> hundred years ago, before automobiles and so on. But because of >>> accelerating work like Neuralink, the difference between our lives, and the >>> lives of people 100 years ago, will be indistinguishable from our lives and >>> people living 50 and 100 years in the future. (i.e. no death, uploading, >>> avatars, amplified intelligence/memory…, traveling to space without needing >>> space suits...) >>> >>> >>> >>> But what continues to blow me away is how much neural progress like this >>> continues while everyone is doing all this in only the abstract domain. >>> People only use one word for all things red. (i.e. qualia blind.) Qualia >>> are intrinsic qualities of something in the brain, so if you want to >>> objectively observe/discover intrinsic qualities, you need to use multiple >>> words, red (something that reflects or emits red light) and redness (the >>> intrinsic quality of knowledge of red things.); How are you going to be >>> able to get someone to see a spot of redness, vs greenness, let alone know >>> if someone’s redness is like someone alse’s greenness. >>> >>> >>> >>> It just seems so absurd to me that not only can nobody tell us the >>> intrinsic colorness qualities of anything in this world, even the brilliant >>> people like Elon Musk, and the world's most brilliant neural researchers >>> and physicists, don’t realize we don’t know this. All peer reviewed work, >>> today, is completely qualia blind, and basically just uses one word for all >>> things red. >>> >>> >>> >>> To better understand qualia blindness, see if you can pass the ‘Are you >>> qualia blind >>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__qualia.insite21.com_survey_1584554976&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=QkudZVqEaqUW44qoicXAix6aXwPgnuGc2J4nQE3WYGQ&s=NsK1h35Y3xaaQRdDonjBss560RE41y5bi0B0CA8tPxc&e=>’ >>> test. >>> >>> And if you agree with the importance of this, please help >>> communicate this to the masses by signing or joining the "Representational >>> Qualia Theory >>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__canonizer.com_topic_88-2DTheories-2Dof-2DConsciousness_1-23statement&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=QkudZVqEaqUW44qoicXAix6aXwPgnuGc2J4nQE3WYGQ&s=Dw9XgSCdDpuvYFJZupfZNiYugryKKtysIaqHiqAnXxA&e=>" >>> camp, or one of it's supporting sub camps which most closely aligns with >>> whatever you predict qualia will turn out to be. >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 2:47 PM Cole Butler <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Wondering your thoughts on Elon Musk’s NeuraLink device. Seems super >>>> cool to me! He talked about a lot of the long-term theoretical applications >>>> on his last appearance on Joe Rohan’s podcast, but this video is a great >>>> highlight of a first iteration. >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_CLUWDLKAF1M&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=2dLZfLZL9xCvp0ueKhpUFX1-EjSVdh6wTEkRq-Lh0vg&s=qso0D6Z6RVeb_Jx8z9azSJa2d59v97MPn5_jyJfrCkg&e= >>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_CLUWDLKAF1M&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=qYptc0lksRL2t4l1zYiVFqO5qB2sEoPhFIZCDeOyNgY&s=yyUPaWjOqqRM_YweOGjq0tkmGoClJlTYlFIo_SGjpzM&e=> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Cole >>>> -- >>>> Cole Butler >>>> Research Coordinator >>>> Project Coordinator: Treating Parents with ADHD and their Children ( >>>> TPAC >>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__umdadhd.org_ongoing-2Dprojects-2Dand-2Dfunding&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=qYptc0lksRL2t4l1zYiVFqO5qB2sEoPhFIZCDeOyNgY&s=tlNaHbzN9ikS7KMidHY5uKKm0d4StTLjMZZoaRUV6aI&e=> >>>> ) >>>> SUCCEEDS >>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__umdadhd.org_succeeds&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=qYptc0lksRL2t4l1zYiVFqO5qB2sEoPhFIZCDeOyNgY&s=8HT-PlFNQY0-9rtIz_YIUhBL59RgOlt_rO4f9SBxfvU&e=> >>>> Coach >>>> University of Maryland >>>> UMD ADHD Lab >>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.umdadhd.org_cole&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=qYptc0lksRL2t4l1zYiVFqO5qB2sEoPhFIZCDeOyNgY&s=kFUj4sMtMI1nCId_Of2o4-DRmEteqZu-LcN1CKkkRFk&e=> >>>> 2103W, Cole Field House | College Park, MD 20742 >>>> tel 301.405.6163 >>>> ############################ >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >>>> following link: >>>> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >>>> >>> ############################ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >>> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >>> following link: >>> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >>> >> ############################ >> >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the >> following link: >> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 >> > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the > following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1