Just found this in relation to MMT and PM:

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__positivemoney.org_2015_03_positive-2Dmoney-2Dversus-2Dmodern-2Dmonetary-2Dtheory_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=bNc6HaTOzmZyPeb0ptJgtMePiahf-b1iGrTZc0BeEqE&s=bhsDC2f5fvAPGWQw9HIOuSepEnSD5lGuySnrybhQ5TI&e= 

One take-away is that PM want to take reform 'further' than MMT - FWIW

Alex

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On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 13:45, Cole Butler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi Jason,
>
> This all sounds very fascinating and I'm looking forward to your
> presentation! I am wondering what your familiarity with and opinion of
> cryptocurrency is, and how you think it might solve or fail to solve some
> of the issues that you've presented here? You don't have to answer now, as
> I realize that is a whole separate area of discussion. I am curious,
> though, as I currently manage an online community for Stake Pool Operators
> (creators and contributors of/to the transactional accounting ecosystem)
> for the Cardano
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__iohk.io_en_projects_cardano_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=0OI21hM3KW4vU0nCI8DgTwqJEMS5bzRfV_c4QzDnlBQ&s=Bj2IoIBUTfINwr98UexX2U49o9PvefKkaEuzUFfEE4o&e=>
> cryptocurrency protocol. I've been impressed with the proposed solutions of
> the platform to large-scale economic issues, but I lack a traditional (or
> even modern) understanding of economics to be able to evaluate this from a
> perspective outside of a crypto-positive angle. May ping you for discussion
> on this if time allows :)
>
> Best,
>
> Cole Butler
> Faculty Specialist
> Project Coordinator: Treating Parents with ADHD and their Children (TPAC
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__umdadhd.org_ongoing-2Dprojects-2Dand-2Dfunding&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=0OI21hM3KW4vU0nCI8DgTwqJEMS5bzRfV_c4QzDnlBQ&s=mimNuR_bUaqC_CkHNowaxIzq4g_y9GsRPRyyq6UT16w&e=>
> )
> University of Maryland
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> tel 301.405.6163
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>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 8:23 AM nysa71 <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> I think *Seven Deadly Innocent Frauds of Economic Policy
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__moslereconomics-2Dkg5winhhtut.stackpathdns.com_wp-2Dcontent_powerpoints_7DIF.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=QeFIk0gMTzCb3TLuy3F-Lsc95Vac3zUGfM-BbD8qxts&s=0ZruWz2EP6ogxCkxhdWNi7rLFhE2xfwEj5oUrCld_oQ&e=>*
>> by Warren Mosler
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__moslereconomics.com_warren-2Dmosler-2Dbio_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=QeFIk0gMTzCb3TLuy3F-Lsc95Vac3zUGfM-BbD8qxts&s=aafUy5NMbRP_8oNymw4PYSpx72_qyFIPvZ_MEl8xtvk&e=>
>> (particularly Part 1, pp. 13-68) is a terrific intro to MMT. Mosler is a a
>> very clear and articulate writer.
>>
>> As I began saying yesterday on the issue of taxation:
>>
>> As a matter of logical ordering, the currency had to have been spent into
>> existence first before that currency could be taken back in taxes. Thus,
>> (and let's use the U.S. federal government as an example), federal taxation
>> doesn't actually function to fund federal expenditures.
>>
>> The primary function of federal taxes is to create demand for the
>> intrinsically worthless currency. You could think of U.S. dollars as
>> federal tax credits.
>>
>> The government issues the currency, *then* imposes taxes which can only
>> be satisfied by that government's own currency.
>>
>> After that, taxes function to help regulate the economy... for example,
>> to control inflation by draining excess currency from the economy. Taxes
>> can also function to discourage certain behaviors deemed undesirable ---
>> for example a high enough tax on pollution should discourage polluting
>> behaviors.
>>
>> Together, spending and taxation are referred to as *fiscal policy*.
>>
>> Now, the same can be said for "borrowing". The currency had to have been
>> spent into existence first before that currency could be "borrowed". Thus
>> the "borrowing" must serve some other function than funding the
>> expenditures of a currency issuer, as well.
>>
>> In short, "borrowing" is just the issuing of Treasury Securities, the
>> function of which is to drain reserves out of the banking system, so that
>> the central bank can hit its targeted interest rate. The less reserves, the
>> higher the interest rate, and vice versa.
>>
>> The targeting of interest rates is referred to as *monetary policy*.
>>
>> More later. [image: Emoji]
>>
>> ~ Jason Bessey
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 11, 2020, 06:11:25 AM EDT, Alex Goodall <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Very helpful - thanks, Jason.
>>
>> I'm out of my depth here, so I'm not going to attempt any defence of PM -
>> except...
>>
>> I wonder how much Randall really studied PM. I say that because he says
>> it's not clear whether PMs proposal for central banks to create money was
>> that it should be physical money (notes and coins) or electronic money.
>> Even a cursory review of their proposals makes it clear they are proposing
>> electronic creation. Perhaps the apparent incoherence comes from
>> insufficient study.
>>
>> What is less known, is that the originators of PM looked deeply into how
>> the Bank of England's internal accounts works. They documented how those
>> accounts currently work, and how they would need to be changed to implement
>> the PM proposals. I'm unclear whether any of that corresponds with the
>> "accounting" issue.
>>
>> And they worked out how to make the transition incrementally to counter
>> accusations that it would be too disruptive.
>> And they even wrote the parliamentary legislation that would need to be
>> passed!
>>
>> I look forward to learning more about MMT
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=FV6gTerkkYoXSRQ-1JRq5Blf62X6toUugorgPYK31-4&s=F_NqiObutH2LjmCjLxQz-b5WEc8eRGORhbZMBh55ssc&e=> Virus-free.
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>> <#m_9005867949810746694_m_-88639455023677705_m_-7725253655477929242_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 02:18, nysa71 <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> Thanks for your response, Alex.
>>
>> To answer your question, no, MMT doesn't align with Positive Money. MMT
>> economists will generally argue that PM fundamentally misanalyzes currency
>> and is incoherent. I remember a few years ago, there was actually a lot of
>> back-and-forth between the two schools of thought.
>>
>> Another criticism of PM by MMT economists is that there's no accounting,
>> which is fundamental to MMT, particularly a macro-accounting identity
>> called "sectoral balances", which I'll get into a little later.
>>
>> Here's a short video (under 7 minutes) of MMT economist, professor
>> Randall Wray from the University of Missouri at Kansas City, giving a basic
>> critique of Positive Money: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DPEnbuW6aaNg&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=bNc6HaTOzmZyPeb0ptJgtMePiahf-b1iGrTZc0BeEqE&s=pBxLUPiqUD816YXqYBJXRlwapZ4xxAnA4ebpE8vG6Uo&e= 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DPEnbuW6aaNg&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=lpMS7tyM_omedh0s3cbg6D8lbLDXWToXx-AcDYylWys&s=PhO0_CWlyUcMLFsq8NmiujTtDYJp3PjwN4ZF2FW6sgE&e=>
>>
>> A fundamental premise of MMT is that there are
>>
>>
>>
>>    1.  Currency *issuers *and
>>    2. Currency *users*
>>
>>
>> As the names suggest, currency issuers *issue* the currency, and
>> currency users merely *use* the currency.
>>
>> Examples of currency issuers would be the U.S. federal government, (the
>> U.S. dollar), the Canadian national government (the Canadian dollar), the
>> Mexican government (the peso), the U.K. government (the pound sterling),
>> the Japanese government (the yen), etc.
>>
>> That is, currency issuers have a monopoly on creating their own
>> respective currencies.
>>
>> Examples of currency users would be households, businesses, and U.S.
>> state & local governments. That is, they do not create currency. They must
>> acquire the currency first (e.g., through work, investments, taxes, etc.)
>> before they can spend. The Eurozone would be another example of currency
>> users since each of those countries gave up their power to issue their own
>> respective currencies, and now are just users of the euro.
>>
>> I'll end with this final thought for now...
>>
>> Why would currency-issuing governments need to tax or "borrow"? Indeed,
>> as a matter of logical ordering, they would need to spend their currency
>> into existence first *before there would be any of that currency to tax
>> or borrow*! Hence, taxes and borrowing must serve some other function(s)
>> than funding the spending of such governments. If anything, it's just the
>> opposite --- it's the spending that funds the taxpayers and the "lenders"!
>>
>> I'll dig into that in my next post!
>>
>> Have a good one,
>> Jason Bessey
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 10, 2020, 02:37:57 PM EDT, Alex Goodall <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Jason
>>
>> That's interesting.
>>
>> Some years ago I was involved with Positive Money in the UK. I don't
>> recall them talking about MMT (but I could be wrong).
>>
>> Their core idea is to educate people to understand that new money is
>> currently created as debt by banks (so economic growth must always be
>> accompanied by growing debt), and the proposal that instead, new money
>> should be created debt-free by the central bank. Alongside that, monetary
>> policy should be focused on how much money to create (to avoid
>> inflation/fund public spending/boost the economy as needed), rather than
>> controlling interest rates - which should be left to the market.
>>
>> Does that align with MMT?
>>
>> There are some very nice, easy-to-understand (albeit a little dated)
>> videos here:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__positivemoney.org_videos_introduction_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=bNc6HaTOzmZyPeb0ptJgtMePiahf-b1iGrTZc0BeEqE&s=BXL6wVGFrKeYP25UKqRGwP93HWtIunvfurLWSPKn7DE&e= 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__positivemoney.org_videos_introduction_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fHWi962XDmFqYegrclgtonuz_BywmuqfQPugghKMyf0&s=CYaidl4l8N1U42lcmStfWW_H5nsttj9J6ZO1UK4PH40&e=>
>>
>> Video 7 provides a good summary.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> <#m_9005867949810746694_m_-88639455023677705_m_-7725253655477929242_m_-6608912687018802065_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 18:30, nysa71 <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>> *From:* nysa71 <[log in to unmask]>
>> *To:* Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 10, 2020, 10:24:25 AM EDT
>> *Subject:* Re: picture bio desc
>>
>> Hello ToK Community,
>>
>> My name is Jason Bessey, and I'm 49 years-old from Skowhegan, Maine.
>>
>> I've long had an interest in psychology and the social sciences, in
>> general. I first heard of the ToK back around 2004 when I was a psychology
>> major at the University of Maine at Farmington via Steve Quackenbush, also
>> a member of this community.
>>
>> I was very interested in the theoretical unification of psychology, and I
>> found Gregg's proposal quite intriguing. I very much appreciated someone
>> attempting to address psychology's theoretical fragmentation.
>>
>> I found other fields in the social sciences interesting, as well --- such
>> as anthropology, sociology, and political science. Furthermore, I could
>> grasp the concepts in those fields.
>>
>> But economics was strangely a different story. I *wanted* to understand
>> it...but couldn't make heads-or-tails of it! It just didn't seem to make a
>> lot of sense. Or to be more specific, *orthodox* economics didn't make
>> any sense to me. It just didn't seem ---- *right*...but I couldn't quite
>> put my finger on it.
>>
>> So I delved into more heterodox schools of economics. Around 2009, I
>> discovered Georgism --- a school of thought based on the writings of late
>> 19th century political economist, Henry George. For the first time,
>> economics started to make sense to me. George was deeply concerned with the
>> increase of poverty in the midst of progress in his time --- hence the name
>> of his popular book, *Progress & Poverty*, in which he based his
>> analysis on the classical three factors of production: land, labor, and
>> capital. His conclusion was that there should be a single tax on land, and
>> there was a significant international "single tax" movement that followed
>> and continued decades after his death.
>>
>> As much as I appreciated George's thought, though. I never thought he got
>> the concept of money quite right. So I asked myself, "What is money?" And I
>> found this question extremely difficult to answer.
>>
>> So for the next two years, I grappled with this question. Around 2013, I
>> saw this mention here and there on social media about something called
>> Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). So I Googled it, read a brief blog post on
>> it, and immediately knew I found the answer to my question.
>>
>> MMT, in short, is (at its core) a description of how sovereign currencies
>> actually function, and has been developed by many professional economists
>> over the years. The interesting part is that that description is
>> significantly different  than what's been described to us by mainstream
>> economists.
>>
>> Furthermore, I began to realize that, in modern political discourse,
>> we're framing questions about fiscal and monetary policy all wrong...and
>> that's standing in the way of us dealing properly with the pressing issues
>> of our time --- a sort of progress-and-poverty problem in our day!
>>
>> So I look forward to sharing with you what I've learned about MMT over
>> the years, and I hope you'll find it of value, too.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jason Bessey
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, September 7, 2020, 07:42:43 AM EDT, Henriques, Gregg -
>> henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Jason,
>>
>>   Could you share a brief narrative/bio about you and your interest in
>> MMT and a title? Also, a picture would be great. I will then announce in
>> the next few days.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> G
>>
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________
>>
>> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
>> Professor
>> Department of Graduate Psychology
>> 216 Johnston Hall
>> MSC 7401
>> James Madison University
>> Harrisonburg, VA 22807
>> (540) 568-7857 (phone)
>> (540) 568-4747 (fax)
>>
>>
>> *Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.*
>>
>> Check out the Theory Of Knowledge homepage at:
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.toksociety.org_home&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=bNc6HaTOzmZyPeb0ptJgtMePiahf-b1iGrTZc0BeEqE&s=pBvQIv12uye3lXxsxep2SASUKRK-FeOndABzL2nbKrQ&e= 
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>>
>>
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