thank you, Gregg. i appreciate the TOK illustration - Very enlightenment era theory and consistent with the foundation for the reinvention of a US style democracy.

as both science and history and applied research and policy clearly show, when words are not being used as rhetorical fetishes in a value laden causal chain, it is how the question is operationalized that reveals the devil in the details.

Democracy has never been about objective truth, but more about how to achieve a more pragmatic social justice and functioning society by managing conflict.

whether one is sticking with current flash points, or randomly selecting historical ones (and a history professor like your Dad is likely able to choose many examples of mixed results from applied theory to historical enactment), truth is always a process in flux, whether one is a devotee of Wittgenstein, Tao, or zen to name a few of the more revered examples of philosophy-religion (which with economics, are often social drivers).
best regards,
Tyler

James Tyler Carpenter, PhD, FAACP
www.metispsych.com
http://www.experts.com/Expert-Witnesses/search?keyword=Clinical%20psychology&keywordsearchtype=All%20Words&category=Clinical%20forensic%20&categorysearchtype=Any%20Word&name=James%20tyler%20carpenter&namesearchtype=All%20Words&company=Metis&companysearchtype=All%20Words&address=%20&addresssearchtype=All%20Words&state=MA&statesearchtype=Any%20Word&country=ALL%20(or%20Choose%20a%20Country)&countrysearchtype=All%20Words&page=1&freshsearch=1

From: James Tyler Carpenter <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2020 8:57:41 AM
To: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TOK Morning After Letter
 
then why would you feel moved to thank me for it, Bradley ?

To answer your more direct question which probably reflects why your 1st response puzzled me as well,

i share your desire for an attempt @ value free discussion (though i wonder where there is such a thing - even paradox and paradigm clash reflect choice) and keeping politics out of professional lists except where clearly relevant to a particular discussion.

my objection to including politics is more about rhetoric (mostly about how poorly conceived and fractious it is), though methodology, reliability and construct validity as currently practiced make this academically trained scientist (past life) want to bang his head.
best regards,
Tyler

James Tyler Carpenter, PhD, FAACP
www.metispsych.com
http://www.experts.com/Expert-Witnesses/search?keyword=Clinical%20psychology&keywordsearchtype=All%20Words&category=Clinical%20forensic%20&categorysearchtype=Any%20Word&name=James%20tyler%20carpenter&namesearchtype=All%20Words&company=Metis&companysearchtype=All%20Words&address=%20&addresssearchtype=All%20Words&state=MA&statesearchtype=Any%20Word&country=ALL%20(or%20Choose%20a%20Country)&countrysearchtype=All%20Words&page=1&freshsearch=1

From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2020 8:43:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TOK Morning After Letter
 

Tyler,

  Re understanding…

 

From a very basic UTOK analysis, we can say that we want a society that maximizes the opportunity for people to be known and valued and have social influence in accordance with that.

 

Both rights and responsibilities are “self-other-Society” dialectical forces that are needed for balance.

 

There are blue line power/competition/authority-based considerations that are reflected upon by traditional conservative values.

 

There are red line love/care/equality considerations that represent progressive liberal values.

 

There are green line freedom/liberty values that represent libertarian values.

 

The proper approach to cultivating the social commons is the healthy dialectical balance between these tensions and poles.

 

Best,
Gregg

 

 

 

 

From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of James Tyler Carpenter
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2020 8:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: TOK Morning After Letter

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


I would find more comfort in learning that there was an increase in basic understanding of complex shared problems ad conflicts and communication, than increased focus on important variables that don’t offer much by themselves to the activation and creation of important shared processes.

best regards to efforts @ learning,

Tyler

 


From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of James Lyons-Weiler <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2020 7:46:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TOK Morning After Letter

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


Yes, indeed!  Those with mass influence, power and wealth who seek to keep it have mastered the "divide and conquer"

tactic a long time ago... Pat Buchanan, a speech writer for Nixon's campaign, one quipped that the way to win

an election is to "divide the country and take the bigger half".

 

Now, with polling, both parties take opposing positions on a multitude of issues selected via multivariate analysis and work incessantly

to pull us all apart from each other with proxy issues that will help them win the election.

 

We fall for it, and identify strongly with it, because we told them (in polls) what motivates us most... which is a far cry

from what truly matters most.

 

So it's little wonder that it feels like society is being ripped apart at the seams.  As you've said, it's alienation nation.

 

I applaud you Gregg for the call for immunity from these forces in the ToK community.  

 

My concern is that this internal political machinery makes us vulnerable to attacks from outside influences fanning the flames of 

discontent and the fact the millenials have been taught to hate the US, and themselves.

 

I will stop there. :)

 

 

On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 7:35 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi All,

 

  I feel very much apolitical/metapolitical these days. I believe that the system is essentially corrupt and broken, and the two parties have entered a “bad divorce” mindset that is more about winning than about cultivating the commons that is the USA. That said, I loathe Trump in a, well, unique way. I am driven by the meta-values of enhancing dignity and well-being with integrity. And whatever you say about Trump or think of his policies, no one can deny that he is the absolute antithesis of someone who has integrity, especially intellectual integrity.

 

  Four and a half years ago, in May of 2016, I started to get nervous Trump could actually win. It was still implausible, but I had gone from “essentially inconceivable” (see here) to “OMG, this is possible”. As such, I wrote the attached “Morning After” letter. I would say his Presidency has not been as bad as I feared, but by and large what I expected. Given how I feel about Trump, I feel it is useful to share this letter again.

 

Intellectually, I seriously doubt he will find his way to another miracle victory, but having been burned before, my gut is anxious.

 

Finally, let me say here that I think the TOK Society should be very careful to avoid political polarization traps. In that regard, let me say that I am not attacking the Republican party nor intellectual conservativism. I am operating from the meta-value position, especially the value of intellectual integrity, which he blatantly rejects and therefore he should be rejected from my value-based vantage point.

 

Best,
Gregg

 

___________________________________________

Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
Professor
Department of Graduate Psychology
216 Johnston Hall
MSC 7401
James Madison University
Harrisonburg, VA 22807
(540) 568-7857 (phone)
(540) 568-4747 (fax)


Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.

Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at:

https://www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org/

 

############################

To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1


 

--

---
james lyons-weiler, phd

Author, CEO, President, Scientist

Guest Contributor, Children's Health Defense 

 

Ebola: An Evolving Story (World Scientific, 2015)

############################

To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1

############################

To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1

############################

To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1

############################

To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1