Deepak: Sorry — I see the diagram…It’s now all over the place! No need to resend. M. > On Oct 4, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Deepak Loomba <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > On 10/4/2020 8:38 PM, James Lyons-Weiler wrote: >> It seems to me there are likely degrees of consciousness, and different forms. >> >> Deepak has a considered demarcation worth reviewing on ALCCO. >> >> If attention is different from awareness is different from consciousness, all forms of "sensing", there should be fundamental characteristics of each. >> >> How do they functionally relate? >> >> A polytomy? >> >> ((AT),(AW),(C)) >> >> or a hierarchy (evolutionary)? >> >> (AT ((AW,C)) >> >> DL: A hierarchichal polytomy :-) > Attaching a table which might help. >> Other? > DL: Besides its types amongst all three components of awareness - stimuli (6 types), processing/cognition (3 types) & response (4 types), there is an additional table of description about what kind of process happens when any of the three are unavailable (7 cases). I have enclosed images for each. > > > >> >> JLW >> >> On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, 10:21 AM Michael Mascolo <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >> Thank you, Nicholas and Gregg: >> >> In your view, is it meaningful to say that an organism can be aware but not conscious? >> >> I am aware of research that seeks to differentiate attention and consciousness. I am somewhat suspect of this work (I need to look deeper) mostly because of terminological issues. In my view, we cannot identify or define consciousness, awareness, attention, etc. by looking carefully or by doing experiments. This is because these words already have meaning our everyday culture, and we start with these meanings. We have to start first by understanding these everyday meanings. Then, when we do studies and experiments, we can refine these meanings. When we notice odd things in research, we must then invoke different terms, phrases and definitions as we refine our concepts. >> >> In my view — I am open to modification — I do not understand how an organism can be aware without being conscious. Awareness is, it would seem to me, a basic form of consciousness — not something fundamentally different. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> M. >> >> >>> On Oct 4, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Nicholas Lattanzio <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >>> >>> I would first argue that most casual references of consciousness do refer to aspects of awareness that we are conscious of, largely being perceptual and cognitive images (versus the actual processes of perception and cognition/thinking). One always has operations of consciousness that are not in one's attentional field, and we can direct our conscious attention to bring things into consciousness and in the same throw lose consciousness of others. We have loose correlational research to suggest that consciousness and attention are different but related, and probably interdependent processes, I have yet to see anything close to compelling about awareness. >>> >>> In my experience (I.e., in my consciousness), awareness seems to be more fundamental to existence than consciousness. One can be asleep (unconscious) but we still have a bare sense of existence, which I argue is what awareness 'is' and is what we fundamentally 'are.' >>> >>> My perspective is highly nondual and phenomenological in nature, and I truly don't believe we have the scientific means to say we can define consciousness and awareness, or even mind in a precise or empirically reliable and valid way. I'm sure others on this thread with share more technical theories, but short of solving the hard problem of consciousness (if we even understand the question correctly), theory is all we can say we have. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Nicholas G. Lattanzio, Psy.D. >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, 8:43 AM Michael Mascolo <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >>> Hi All: >>> >>> Can someone please suggest definitions for “consciousness” and “awareness”. Is anyone here arguing that these are two different processes? I’m not sure what it means to say that an organism can be aware but not conscious (unless consciousness means “self-conscious”). >>> >>> M. >>> >>> ############################ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: >>> write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>> or click the following link: >>> http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> >>> ############################ >>> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> >> ############################ >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1>############################ >> To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1>-- > <Signatures DL Gmail WO Cell.jpg> > ############################ > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:mailto:[log in to unmask]> or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 <http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1> <Awareness vs consciousness.jpg><Awareness response and process types.jpg> > ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1