Gregg, Thanks, In short, I suspect most mental health problems are rooted in unconscious expectations that get expressed in the body, This seems similar to a recent post of yours about connection being the main point, as I recall. Real connection is not as volitional as intellectual life, but more like Wu Wei - effortless action... If the diagnosed could be different, truly healthy, the goal should be to create trust in being, seeking spontaneous expressions and connections from within, if they could unlearn certain self-perpetuating patterns..... Eckhart Tolle's idea of "painbody" is essentially a demon - or what I call an "intentionality" in the unconscious that manifests when unresolved pain is triggered. In my view, anyone who still fears death, or has destructive tendencies of any kind, contains a few latent "demons" - personas or intentionslities that seek the "wide gate" towards pleasure and destruction...as few seek the narrow gate of...submition to existence? Jamie On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 5:35 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Hi Jamie, > > Thanks for this note. I am working on the portion of my book that argues > that we should shift from an emphasis on scientific knowledge to the > cultivation of wisdom. Specifically, I am arguing that traditional MENS > knowledge was broken on several accounts, which I frame most directly via > the Enlightenment Gap. I argue that the UTOK allows for a correction of > this gap, a metamodern conception of MENS that in turn allows for a > cultivation of a Wisdom Orientation, i.e., a WOMENS knowledge system that > cultivates Wisdom Energy. > > > > This argument has long been made by the philosopher Nicholas Maxwell. Here > is an article by him in Aeon that summarizes his work > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aeon.co_essays_bring-2Dback-2Dscience-2Dand-2Dphilosophy-2Das-2Dnatural-2Dphilosophy&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=J-ZSTyssyCFgsEHbhOPz2YJ8Jz_SI6aMfM1v2Kb_Eak&s=mbOi96QgJwbmRlSRowXLYxFpoBY0XosyaSC1Iz2sClY&e= >. > Here is a summary of what he says should be our fundamental orientation: > > It is, above all, to keep alive such thinking about our most fundamental > problem of all, which can be put like this: how can our human world, the > world as it appears to us, the world we live in and see, touch, hear and > smell, the world of living things, people, consciousness, free will, > meaning and value – how can all of this exist and best flourish embedded as > it is in the physical Universe? > > > > I will say that this was basically the question I asked as I started my > journey to become a therapist. I then wanted the best, most precise, > comprehensive and comprehensible frame of knowledge to ground my > understanding of what is so that I could better guide folks toward the > ought (i.e., adaptive living that is oriented toward valued states of > being). > > > > Best, > Gregg > > > > > > *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion < > [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *Jamie D > *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:12 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Life hazards of scientific thinking > > > > *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links > or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is > safe. > ------------------------------ > > Hey ToK folks, > > > > Basic conclusions first: > > *We can't test what's formless because the data is continually > disappearing. > > > > *This is the mystery of forgiveness: > > Dis-identifying with harmful memories rather than seeking a strategic > method to overcome the memories... which can never work while the body > still expresses an unconscious expectation to be mistreated, no matter how > good with words one is, nobody will hear you while the body feels that way. > > The body needs to be convinced. > > > > And since we are only responsible for ourselves, the ONLY real solution is > to defy all induction (that's what I've been stuck on,and think most people > are stuck on...but even that is only necessary but not sufficient... > > > > *One must vocally affirm, or do whatever it takes to truly feel and > believe expectations one has never had, like expecting to speak Spanish > when one wakes up tomorrow. > > > > *this is what it means to stop being the effect and be the cause - to > control what's true...stop being a scientist of life, when life (the > formless, indetermined) can't be studied by science...ha ha ha. > > > > Explanation: > > > > 1. A child has a scientific mind. > > 2. The child gathers information about his interactions, building a model > of what to expect. He then plays with trial and error to achieve the good > life, all while growing into an adult > > 3. If the person came to expect mistreatment since adoption...when will > his efforts using science, in testing for results, or trial and error > succeed? > > I think never. Never ever, ever. > > > > The outer world to one subject is not a form that sits still while one can > move around mapping it...likewise with love and power. These are something > forever beyond the scientific mindset of being the effect. > > > > *He who identifies with loss, loss enjoys to ruin > > - Tao Te ching > > *From he who [identifies with not having], even what he has shall be > taken. - Jesus (my translation) > > *I've been frustrated for a while now with the seeming absurdity of these > claims, as they ask me for defy all induction. > > > > 3. We all know that something about consciousness defies scientifuc > testing. Reason and Love/Power seem to me to reflect the duality of form > and formless, and maybe correspond precisely to matter and wave, as Dr. Joe > Dispensa claims in his research....which seems right to me. > > *He once said the limbic system looked like the eye of horus as if on > purpose...but what do I know. If a placebo works, it works. Logotherapy. > > > > Thanks for reading, > > Jamie > > > > P.S. > > > > *sadly, much of that "life-data of loss" reflects what appears to be, > universally the dark underbelly of humanity. The blessed freedom from some > naivete. > > I've always thought it necessary for people to candidly accept this stuff > to 1. prevent it in the future, but more, 2. To destroy whatever norms > maintain this shadow realm and subversively resist norms of honesty....all > the while people speak of honesty ... which tell me these norms are mostly > unconscious. > > > > For example, in the Navy there were rules we had to break to earn the > trust of our peers and even the chief. I actually had no problem because > the rules seemed like they were for children. But some people thought my > intellectualism meant an honesty that couldn't be trusted... whatev. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the > following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > ############################ > > To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the > following link: > http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1 > ############################ To unsubscribe from the TOK-SOCIETY-L list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.jmu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=TOK-SOCIETY-L&A=1