Jamie,

Really interesting project here. I'd just like to respond to your point
towards the end about this sort of evolutionary process being both singular
and simultaneous collective. This is exactly the nature of what I call
a *process
ontology, *similar to Buckminster Fuller's analogy of the the universe
unfolding as a knot traveling down a rope made of segments of different
material (e.g., hemp, velvet, cotton, satin, etc.). As the knot travels
down the rope, it's "pattern" of the actual knot remains the same while its
physical composition may change. The difference in my ontological process
is that it is evolutionary, so that each segment of material is of a higher
degree of complexity (i.e., the ToK). The process is the thing itself. The
increasing complexification as I see it works to diversify existence, so
since this is a linear model with a cyclical model of time (cyclical does
not truly even capture it it goes everywhere), as diversification and
complexity increase they will hit a point at which they are so stratified
by their place on the evolutionary rope that they will themselves become
the singularity that is tuen futher diversified. This is merwly a part
becoming a whole to either parts, but each time this happens its is its on
scale of a singularity or "big bang" in that proximal zones are breeched
and novelty is introduced and then exhausted. An endless cycle of cycling
in as many cycle as we possibly can. This is of course simplified but I
hope you see my stress on the process itself being the intogocal referent.

I used Fuller's analogy because he shares the ai view that you discuss, or
at least similarly. For he talked about the world becoming culturally
integrated in this sense (a one town world). Alan Watts provides a nice
little bridge that highlights these points.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_3-5Fdn4a0Tkkw&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fM6GTO8knjp1nc8OswQql4SLZOaNke1MX-yYFdZfMG0&s=f30Bb7mqWiAFdx3ULXlNy3NTuxfQX5UxsxCmlmdY24c&e= 



Regards,

Nicholas G. Lattanzio, Psy.D.

On Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 7:42 AM Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Cool discussions!
>
>
>
> Interesting Parallel here: On Friday I had a discussion about a podcast I
> am going to do with Owen Cox and Daniel Fraga who run the Techno-Social
> Podcast <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_channel_UCYRBTiUc6InEiJJ6BLF6piw_videos&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fM6GTO8knjp1nc8OswQql4SLZOaNke1MX-yYFdZfMG0&s=Q5RRIvgot-afJjpELtamrvKd-rwErzaRyMu9jtbfYSA&e= >.
> We are going to talk about the “singularity” and see what threads we might
> pull on from technology/digital/artificial intelligence (here
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Technological-5Fsingularity-23-3A-7E-3Atext-3DThe-2520technological-2520singularity-25E2-2580-2594also-252C-2520simply-2Cunforeseeable-2520changes-2520to-2520human-2520civilization&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fM6GTO8knjp1nc8OswQql4SLZOaNke1MX-yYFdZfMG0&s=GYN_iDhi4IKGUo6hxydho_arPwOVA7HiWecdNKSLa-0&e= .>
> is the Wiki entry for this concept), social movements and collective
> awareness (Max Borders did a book on this
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Social-2DSingularity-2Ddecentralization-2Dprosperity-2Dapocalypse-2Debook_dp_B07DDPVCM1&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fM6GTO8knjp1nc8OswQql4SLZOaNke1MX-yYFdZfMG0&s=xSKsru4408xcchb0QnbqRXLZ-BByfG8xpKe9yCUPv-Q&e= >),
> the “2028” timeline found by Korotayev
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.researchgate.net_publication_325664983-5FThe-5F21-5Fst-5FCentury-5FSingularity-5Fand-5Fits-5FBig-5FHistory-5FImplications-5FA-5Fre-2Danalysis&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fM6GTO8knjp1nc8OswQql4SLZOaNke1MX-yYFdZfMG0&s=C1_0FdUS4wHFyW8Rwe0XPrlbEMYQ5mSEuLuU237edrk&e= >,
> and the knowledge to wisdom 5th joint point frame afforded by ToK/UTOK.
>
>
>
> I posit that the Tree, the iQuad Coin and the Garden afford some useful
> concepts for framing the singularity. The Tree provides the frame for a
> coherent naturalistic scientific ontology. The coin represents both the
> idiosyncratic individual and his/her connection to Humanity writ large. And
> the Garden represents the mytho-poetic ethical intersubjective “we”.
> Connecting this knowledge/wisdom architecture with technology and social
> movements is definitely a powerful vision.
>
>
>
> Thanks for sharing.
>
>
>
> Best,
> Gregg
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* tree of knowledge system discussion <
> [log in to unmask]> *On Behalf Of *James Gien Wong
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 18, 2021 2:11 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: Toy Model of the 5th Joint Point
>
>
>
> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
>
> @Jamie,
>
>
>
> Really interesting and coincidental!  I’ve been working on designing a
> similar system architecture for an open knowledge commons for humanity
> (OKCH) based on linguistic atoms. The same system can be used for both an
> open source journal of journals, as well as an anytime pedagogic system
> treating all students as lifetime learners. I’m currently outlining a
> skeleton for a position paper on the system architecture to help
> consolidate the diversity of ideas required to build such a system. It
> needs to be pursued as a commons project that belongs to humanity and not
> controlled by corporate entities, hence I’m preparing it to present to the
> Peer to Peer Foundation.
>
>
>
> It leverages the important idea of aspectualization, which John and Gregg
> introduced into my own salience landscape through their dialogues. As a
> prototype, I was thinking of presenting all the different strands of ideas
> discussed in this group. In this way, different clusters of ideas appear in
> different parts of 3d linguistic space. The idea is that our representation
> of reality is a gestalt that is the sum of our collective intelligence and
> the linguistic representation via knowledge graphs can be aspectualized by
> looking from different perspectives at the total knowledge gestalt. I plan
> to represent the book I am currently writing in this new media format. My
> citations will simply directly connect to other complete works of knowledge
> that are represented within the same knowledge graph gestalt. For instance,
> I will cite Gregg and John’s work so i will seek permission to encode their
> books and papers into the knowledge graph. The more related,  independent
> research articles, papers and books it can represent, the richer the
> entangled knowledge graph and the more effortless a user can understand and
> paint a complete picture of reality.
>
>
>
> Currently, all knowledge thatis digitised is represented in binary code
> which is devoid of knowledge relationships. In this way, digital technology
> is being used as a fascimile for text written in books and on paper. Just
> as text written on paper becomes fixed, digital information displays the
> same rigidity. High dimensionality knowledge graphs will unlock the
> disruptive potential of digital technology to create a quantum leap in
> knowledge representation.
>
>
>
> This cannot be done with current generation of technology however, due to
> the permutation explosion problem that associated with linguistic
> representation of such vast amounts of information. That’s why next
> generation technologies must be explored to achieve it.
>
>
>
> I see the work done in this group as belonging to half the important work
> for bottom up, rapid whole system change relating to human inner
> transformation (HIT). The other important work is the social outer
> transformation (SOT) via implementing metrics for measuring planetary
> boundaries at a practical scale so that citizens in cities and communities
> can rebuild civilization at a local level, guided by local, downscaled
> metrics that give them meaningful targets to aim towards. So my other work
> is engaged with planetary scientists to develop those metrics, and with
> other groups working on strategic on-the-ground strategies to build local,
> circular economies such as industrial hemp supply chsins that can create
> entire circular supply chains. However, an OKCH is a critical component to
> act as a framework for both HIT and SET. Given that we have about 5 to 10
> years to avoid 1.5 deg c mean global temp, a proxy metric for an entire
> gestalt of biospheric destruction, the work we need to do as a civilization
> is unprecedented, especially given the degree of collective ignorance that
> keeps us moving at a snails pace when we should be moving at supersonic
> speed.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 at 23:36, Jamie D <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
>
> Hey ToKers,
>
>
>
> I'm working on a web prototype I hope to finish by August. It's a very
> basic version of a collective intelligence that integrates all user inputs
> into what I and my friends call "thought-demographics"...so like, "I drink
> Green Tea" would be a demographic, with a population of those who share the
> same expression....or any expression one might care to make.
>
>
>
> The following is some of the theory behind it that still blows my mind
> every time I bother to look deeply into it.
>
>
>
> *Theoretic Limits of RealTalk.ai (not online yet)*
>
> *(Hint: there’s no limit. The concept behind the prototype IS the
> Singularity, the big one, the one TOO BIG TO SEE. While the prototype
> RealTalk.ai is intended to utilize well-known aspects of social networks,
> the concept of integrating symbolic expressions to form a collective,
> interactive representation of society is boundless, inevitable,
> mindblowingly valuable, and stunningly powerful.)*
>
>
>
> *The closest thing I've found out there so far to the central concept is *collaborative
> filtering*, used for netflix recommendations.
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Collaborative-5Ffiltering&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fM6GTO8knjp1nc8OswQql4SLZOaNke1MX-yYFdZfMG0&s=uF2Rfq6AjYK8PbSyzJJyDpWux37GXM11F7K7WvEOv4c&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Collaborative-5Ffiltering&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=EfyDO0hrtTkCIvj7T2pCsryNmVoBNr5Elfv5iZ0g-Mo&s=wCu4tL4D6zRzBc5MOrD0Tqgx9khk09YZkSFlFj-TvQ4&e=>
>
>
>
> A similar concept will be used to further integrate society into
> collective intelligence.
>
>
>
>    - It is akin to the transition from kingdoms to democracies -
>    harnessing greater collective input for greater social union. This time,
>    everyone is president, ...at least somewhat...who knows?
>    - As you read this, try to think of a better way to protect the future
>    from AI tyranny, autocracy, idiocracy, or any other existential threat
>    to society.
>    - The principle will be the structure for entirely new economies and
>    social systems, and *the entire internet* a stage or two from now.
>    - Ego and profit-motive are the causes of all problems in medicine,
>    science, academia, ..everything. EGO IS ALL.Yet, we are still being
>    domesticated by one-another, and the culture of egioc denial is dying, as
>    our nature so obvious on the media.
>    - The principle will radically augment the following industries and
>    more:
>
>
>    - Utilizing crowd epidemiology - potentially curing all diseases.
>       - It will be the greatest social science database of all time.
>       - It will replace the current political charade.
>       - Identity politics will be obliterated by egoic exhaustion and the
>       clear-seeing of the hidden values of other groups in the safety of our
>       homes.
>       - *Once it gets a foothold, it will never end, but further
>       integrate towards, and as, the Singularity...but not like it’s been
>       conceived so far...*
>
>
>
> *The concept:*
>
>
>
> RealTalk.ai is a prototype collective intelligence in the works, based on
> the inevitable principles of cultural evolution and the integration of
> broader human intelligence.
>
> While RealTalk.ai is merely a prototype, the concept is inevitable, and
> massive.
>
>
>
> *image 2:*
>
> image 3
>
>
>
> Each user will have their own set of endorsed or created expressions.
>
>
>
> The only risk of privacy is triangulation and estmate.
>
>
>
> Users can research their society's values in depth.
>
>
>
> At least, small groups and companies can use this, but *my prediction is
> that the general idea is a leap in the evolution of culture. *
>
>
>
> *Old news: *Humans are cyborgs, and have been since our tool and symbol
> use began domesticating us.
>
>
>
> *New news: Every Human Mind is a kind of artificial intelligence already,
> as we design our minds...but who designs the mind? I contend each human
> baby is a kind of AI cultural engineer, a loop between the body-mind and
> surrounding culture, **who cultivates an emergent Tree of Intellect in
> both the individual mind and the community. *
>
> Just as culture is inherently technological, so it is with our minds. New
> words, concepts, and ways are continually invented, internalized. And,
> hungry for info, the mind, like an organism unto itself, endlessly seeks to
> copulate with novelty to give birth to some prestige-offering
> thought-baby:  a trend that will offer or further increase status, a
> long-life of glory.
>
>
>
> The system of symbols in each human brain is an emergent Tree of
> Knowledge. Young children never know what they will learn or become, but as
> their Tree rises higher, they acquire a greater view of their landscape,
> their reality, whether they emphasize the physical, natural, or various
> social or other landscapes.
>
>
>
> Intelligence is evolutionary, systemic and emergent, but also, I contend,
> essential to our very being, *our presence*. Intelligence is already
> infinite, analogue, and combined with increasingly definable stuff.  For it
> is that* ineffable whatever, the “I-Am-ness”,* that’s behind all the
> mappable aspects of mind, and it’s like a bottomless white hole. And it’s
> YOU.
>
>
>
> *Personally, I’m confident the duality between the known / knowable and
> the unknown / unknowable will never end, yet the former will likely grow
> forever as it encroaches on the ladder, both infinite, but that’s too
> philosophical for this paper.
>
>
>
> *Now, about RealTalk.ai:*
>
>
>
> Imagine each person on the planet copied their mind/memeplex to the web, (*as
> we are already, just not organized, NOT YET INTEGRATED, but soon to be...*)
> such that every shared meme bridged any two or more people into a tribe or
> *“thought-demographic”.*
>
>
>
> *But first, some big-picture stuff on the evolution of culture and tech:*
>
>
>
> *The most constant trend in cosmic evolution, including culture and
> technology…*
>
>
>
>  *(other than the 2nd law of thermodynamics (entropy, or, according to
> the big picture, what I call the expansion of evolutionary possibilities) *
>
>
>
> *…..Is the accelerating integration of increasing complexity.*
>
>
>
> *Just LOOK:*
>
>
>
> Earth was a molten rock…
>
> ...then hardly a biosphere,
>
> …then the cambrian explosion,
>
> ...then early hominids, bands, tribes, kingdoms, parliaments,
> democracies...
>
> …industry, phone and airlines, then the web, social networks…
>
> ...*each stage* *both more complex and integrated than before.*
>
>
>
> *“Historically, we have seen an overarching trend towards the emergence of
> higher levels of social organization, from hunter-gatherer bands, to
> chiefdoms, city-states, nation states, and now multinational organizations,
> regional alliances, various international governance structures, and other
> aspects of globalization. Extrapolation of this trend points to the
> creation of a SINGLETON.” - Nick Bostrom.*
>
>
>
> *SINGLETON -   a world order in which there is a single decision-making
> agency at the highest level. *
>
>
>
> It’s in Nick Bostrom’s interest to shout wolf. I would if I were him, and
> believe it too as that too would be in my interest were I in his shoes. But
> from where I look, *the inevitable singleton must be collective AND
> singular at the same time.*
>
>
>
> Journey into this concept and you will continually find more and more
> epiphanies, an endless resource for the practical dreamer. Your vision for
> the future will rise so high above your peers, you won’t speak their
> language anymore.
>
>
>
> I’ve written hundreds of pages on this idea, and feel like I’ve barely
> scratched the surface. It’s TOO BIG TO SEE. Maybe some people have more
> trouble visualizing *the endless, accelerating integration of complexity,
> let alone come up with a prototype that harnesses the principles.*
>
>
>
> One thing this has is moral power...but moral power is a popularity
> contest that only bends to the truth when it has to.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> -Jamie
>
> ############################
>
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>
> --
>
> Wishing you WELLth
>
> Gien
>
> Future Ancestor
>
>
>
> Pull a thread here and you’ll find it’s attached to the rest of the world.
> - Nadeem Aslam
>
>
>
> www.stopresetgo.org
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.stopresetgo.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=3SaRqjzoJBjmZLaZ7ON58DSlV3pHvFXkt1xeFQYlroU&s=QHsAWqZhccXlMBIFlPRzQdonhGh0ZHHHgHCE3MZf4yo&e=>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.earthwisecentre.org_tps&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fM6GTO8knjp1nc8OswQql4SLZOaNke1MX-yYFdZfMG0&s=KU0SUzWVHEP8oT5qKixhIM3DQaieIEHKpaOAevwivRA&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.earthwisecentre.org_tps&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=3SaRqjzoJBjmZLaZ7ON58DSlV3pHvFXkt1xeFQYlroU&s=JJwx78HMtAHP8VXzfZ5KLuOAnVSEGGsdyiMJT70nzZ0&e=>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tippingpointfestival.org&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fM6GTO8knjp1nc8OswQql4SLZOaNke1MX-yYFdZfMG0&s=Lb9pnMzLHKAyX8-PIGS57xh94SRP5ImwENC_4ugLYhc&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tippingpointfestival.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=3SaRqjzoJBjmZLaZ7ON58DSlV3pHvFXkt1xeFQYlroU&s=R5wxpV4l4p8zrvzr9M21hE84-VUqMSIrRZ4rfy6fjPM&e=>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.earthwisecentre.org_music-2Dfor-2Dchange&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fM6GTO8knjp1nc8OswQql4SLZOaNke1MX-yYFdZfMG0&s=P2pi49Od2tRJoumR3VNdpyatZv1xfN8nr4jKYHFhb4o&e= 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.earthwisecentre.org_music-2Dfor-2Dchange&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=3SaRqjzoJBjmZLaZ7ON58DSlV3pHvFXkt1xeFQYlroU&s=Va-sqwaSv8MWgti81ml7YKzWwTBcBP7jSYavlCZTE00&e=>
>
> www.futureliving.institute
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.futureliving.institute_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=3SaRqjzoJBjmZLaZ7ON58DSlV3pHvFXkt1xeFQYlroU&s=8x5PiPVMWAYAmUUMbuA4xyseQnvVOpGyU86BXtUuZtM&e=>
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
> intl ph: (1) 206 973-3924
>
> SA ph: (+27) 79 589 6173
>
> skype: geniepop
>
>
>
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