I thought I should check out what David Chalmers latest thoughts were on
this subject. He wrote this paper summarizing a lot of different thinker’s
responses to it in a recent symposium:

How Can We Solve the Meta-Problem of Consciousness?
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__consc.net_papers_solving.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=1fD5Cz7I-mSSnq257AeSpb1d95_hrHL1IfMcO2dXF2Y&s=NRAWqm2qBmQ6deb9yC_Y9LW6mKRla-J0dxswvdD0MaM&e= 

In particular, what caught my attention so far in reading this paper are:

Daniel Dennett’s Access Problem:
“ Daniel Dennett’s commentary is almost entirely devoted to the access
problem: how is it that some information becomes accessible at the personal
level for action, reasoning, and report? This is an extremely interesting
problem, but it is not the meta-problem. Explaining how “That object is
red” or even “I see a red object” is made accessible does not yet explain
why perception of redness should seem to have the distinctive properties of
consciousness.”
...
“ In any case, I agree with Dennett that the access problem is important in
its own right. It’s an interesting hypothesis that much of our
personal-level access to mental states evolved to serve human communication
and reflective reasoning, and that nonhuman animals don’t have anything
really analogous. ”

and Chalmers’ thoughts on the functional-phenomenal / structural-phenomenal
gap:

“ For example, the functional-phenomenal gap plays a major role in my
original statement of the hard problem. There the key intuition was that
explaining functions does not suffice to explain experience. Nothing here
mentions the physical and underestimating the physical does not bear on
explaining it. McClelland responds by saying that this intuition is only a
problem intuition if one thinks that functionalizability is required for
explanation in physical terms; for others, there is no problem. I think
this is wrong. For example, many Russellian monists endorse an expanded
physicalism and so don’t see a physical-phenomenal gap, but still have the
strong sense that there is a hard problem precisely because there is a
structural-phenomenal gap or a functional-phenomenal gap. It is these gaps
that force one to rely on the appeal to an expanded notion of the physical
in the first place. So these gaps are quite central to the problem.”
...
“ As for the ignorance hypothesis, I am not unsympathetic with it in its
Russellian form. I am sympathetic with Russellian monism, and this
naturally goes along with the view that we are ignorant of the intrinsic
nature of the physical. I’m not so sympathetic with non-Russellian
versions. If we do not make the Russellian appeal to nonstructural
properties, then we are left having to explain consciousness in terms of
the structural properties in physics. Then we are faced with the
structure-consciousness gap, about which the ignorance-of-the-physical
hypothesis has little to say. Perhaps there is a more general
ignorance-of-structure hypothesis that could help to close the
structural-phenomenal gap, but that is a different thesis and making a case
for it would take a lot of work.”

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 at 03:19, Alex Ebert <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
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> ------------------------------
> Hello all,
>
> New to the list (thank you, Gregg) and just back from some time off-grid,
> I’ve been enjoying catching up on this thread.
> Some assorted notes.
>
> - That quantitative thresholds yield qualitative shift is indeed only
> novel if Hegel (science of logic) is novel.  Long before AI.  This
> relationship between quantitative thresholds and qualitative shifts is
> further enumerated best and earliest by Engels (Dialectics of Nature), as
> he describes the chemical series of methane to ethane to hexadecane, all
> with the simple addition of carbon and hydrogen molecules - with the prior
> being gases and the final yielding a solid.  He calls this relationship
> between quantitative thresholds and the qualitative shifts they produce
>  “Hegel’s Law”, hilariously.  Nevertheless, the quantitative / qualitative
> relationship *is* how emergence works, in my view, and a group such as
> this should not go too long on a subject like emergence without mentioning
> it.
>
> - The concept of the quantitative threshold/qualitative shift of course
> also is thought to apply to the mind.  Whether this is a quantitative
> threshold fed initially by panprotopsychist substance or by “dumb“
> substance is a curiosity, but may not be the philosophical fork one might
> suppose.
>
> - There are two general paths to mind here discussed and both of them are
> emergent - and I’m not sure either are “hard”.
> One is a (gasp!) panprotopsychism (an interiority “aspect” to all
> substance, per Alderman, yielding consciousness at higher orders of
> complexity) and the other is something like transcendent (gasp!)
> evolutionism (“dumb” substance yielding culture and mind at higher orders
> of complexity, per UTOK?, Mascolo, etc).
>
> - I should point out that the average western guy may have a firmer grasp
> on the emergence of mind than any of us (perhaps we do prefer that the
> question be hard when it is not, lest we have nothing to do with
> our...minds):
>  The avg guy tends to feel that a protein has no brain, and thus no mind.
> And yet this fellow believes in an evolution that dragged all such
> substances up thru the muck and the grime of toad and slime of scale and
> thru the fur of apes and blood of chimps and into a humanity...*that
> yielded mind*.  Avg guy is thus a quantitative/qualitative believer of
> the transcendent evolution variety.  Naturally.
>
> Meanwhile us more whimsical philosophers (I’m more of a panprotopsychist
> for a very specific reason to do with what catalyzes complexity to begin
> with - so count me “whimsical”), go on about the hard problem as if
> material complexity couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the
> emergence of interiority.  It absolutely could.  One look at wolfram’s
> hypergraphs (no matter what you think of them) and the idea no longer seems
> strange at all.
>
> - side note : IMO the physicalist perspective (dumb materialism yielding
> mind) of emergent mind that works best is a mind that intervenes not on the
> brain - but on everything, which is how I translate the UTOK vision.
> There are no truly discreet operations.
>
> Cheers all,
> Ebert (or Alex if there be not too many of me already here).
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 6, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Bruce Alderman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> ------------------------------
> Hi, Michael, I am familiar with the H2O metaphor for the emergence of
> 'mind' or the psychological, but in my view it still is reductionistic --
> and / or it doesn't do the work it is supposed to do.  All examples of
> emergence we have are of the same kind:  new organizations of matter, with
> new emergent behaviors.  But in my understanding, the 'hard problem' is
> deemed a hard problem, not because agent-like behaviors can emerge in
> complex systems -- that's all still third-person, objective description and
> focus; still a behavior-orientation.  The hard problem is a hard problem
> because there seems to be no objective explanation of how or why any of
> that would lead to first-person, qualitative feeling or experience.  There
> is a leap being made, where we assert that 'subjective feeling / experience
> is here,' but all we have accounted for is the emergence of new complex
> forms of the behavior of material forms.  Not the irruption of 1p
> experience into a world utterly devoid of such until then.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bruce
>
> On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 4:23 PM Michael Mascolo <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
>> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
>> safe.
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Hi All:
>>
>> In a recent post, I expressed agreement with the an article that asserted
>> that that “the mind does not exist” – at least to the extent that “mind”
>> and “mental” are defined in contrast with “physical” and “material”.  The
>> mental/physical dichotomy is a nasty one, as it suggests that “mind” is
>> something that is non-corporeal.  Robert Ryan — in a post that I am deeply
>> grateful for — suggested that the ideas that I had advanced are
>> reductionistic. Robert inspired me to try to be clearer in my thoughts
>> about why “mind” and “mental” are unhelpful concepts, and how it is
>> possible to be both a materialist and to be non-reductionist.  I believe
>> that it is possible to have a non-reductionist materialist conception of
>> consciousness and experience.  And I think that this position aligns quite
>> closely indeed with Gregg’s system.
>>
>> I want to assert a concept that I have called *embodied emergence *(Mascolo
>> & Kallio, 2019) — the idea that psychological processes and states
>> (consciousness, experience) *are* complexly-organized biological
>> processes, albeit ones with novel emergent properties. (Please – stay with
>> me – there is something new here as I hope will become clear below.)  Novel
>> psychological properties – e.g., awareness meaning, experience, qualia –
>> are emergent from biological processes in the sense that they are *not
>> found* in their base biological elements.  However, these novel and
>> emergent psychological processes do not contain (nor do they have to)
>> properties that *override* or *conflict with* the properties of their
>> base elements.
>>
>> To make this argument, I want to show that qualitative transformations
>> routinely occur in everyday physical systems without creating structures
>> that override or conflict with the properties of their base elements.  This
>> can be illustrated with the common example of how we get *liquid* –
>> water – from the combination of two *gasses* – hydrogen and oxygen.
>> When we combine hydrogen and oxygen – two gasses – we don’t get more gas –
>> we get a liquid – something with qualitatively different properties.  How
>> is this possible?
>>
>> This is not a mysterious process. This well-understood process is
>> described in the graphic below.  The short story: A water molecule, of
>> course, is formed with two molecules of hydrogen combine with one molecule
>> of oxygen. When this happens, individual water molecules connect to each
>> other through the formation of a *hydrogen bond* between the slightly
>> negatively-charged oxygen molecule of one water molecule and the slightly
>> positively-charged hydrogen molecule of another This bond, however, is very
>> weak. As a result, movement breaks the bond quickly, allowing molecules to
>> flow over each other – thus producing liquid.
>>
>> The novel way of understanding this process is to be found in the concept
>> of *EQUIVALENCE *(which, as I understand in mathematics, is different
>> from *equality*).  Liquidity is an emergent property of H20 molecules
>> aggregated together.   When we combine material gas of H and the material
>> gas of O, we get the material liquid of H20.  When we say that liquid
>> emerges from a combination of H2 and O, we do not say that the
>> combination produces H20 *and then also* the liquid we call water.  H20
>> is the EQUIVALENT of the liquid we call water. The properties of water are
>> fully explainable by the novel structure that arises from the relations
>> between H2 and O.  We don’t need to *add something* in addition to the
>> novel structure of H20 to explain its properties.  We simply have a
>> novel structure with emergent properties.  The properties that emerge from
>> the coordination of base elements are not to be found in those base
>> elements. In this way, the novel properties cannot be reduced to their base
>> elements.
>>
>> I want to say that the *same basic equivalence relation* occurs between
>> base biological processes and emergent psychological processes.  We have
>> biological structures and processes – cells, neurons, synapses, etc.
>> Psychological states and processes emerge from the complex organization of
>> biological structures and processes (in ways that we do not understand).
>> Now, here is the important philosophical point: When this happens, the
>> higher-order *biological organization* has novel psychological
>> properties – e.g., awareness, qualia, etc. – that are not found in the base
>> elements themselves (e.g., individual cells).
>>
>> What I want to say is that the relation between (a) base biological
>> processes and (b) biological processes with emergent psychological
>> properties is akin to the relation between (a’) the base physical elements
>> of H and O (b’) and the physical water molecule -- H20 – with the
>> emergent property of liquidity. That is:
>>
>> The liquid we call “water” is the EQUIVALENT of H20.  There is not H20
>> and THEN ALSO something else – some emergent liquid we call “water”.
>> Liquidity is the emergent property of H20 – a higher-order structture
>> We don’t have H20 plus something else called “water” or “liquid”.
>>
>> States we call consciousness, awareness or qualia are the EQUIVALENT of
>> complexly organized biological processes. There are not the
>> complexly-organized biological structures and THEN ALSO some novel “mental”
>> or “non-biological” something called “consciousness”.  We don’t have
>> biological processes PLUS something else called “mind” or the “mental”.
>> Psychological processes ARE complex biological processes with emergent
>> properties (awareness).
>>
>> But wait, you might say: The psychological person is an agent – the
>> person has something akin to “free will” – the capacity to control his or
>> her own behavior.  Physical systems don’t do this.  How do we get something
>> like conscious agency from a physical system?  To explain psychological
>> processes in a material system, don’t we have to explain how we are capable
>> of conscious control?  Don’t our powers of conscious control mean that
>> somehow “minds” emerge that control “physical” or “biological” bodies?
>>
>> The answer is “no” – we do not have to postulate a “mental” entity to
>> control behavior – because the capacity for hierarchical regulation is
>> already built into the structure and processes of biological systems.
>>
>> I believe that we tend to believe that “mind” is something that is
>> separate from “body” not not because we can’t imagine how awareness can
>> emerge from biological processes, but instead because we cannot imagine how
>> human *agency* –  the capacity to consciously control behavior --
>>  emerges from a physical or biological system.  We attribute a capacity for
>> conscious control (sometimes called “free will”) to “mind”.  How else can
>> “we” be in control?
>>
>> But the point is this: We don’t need complex “mental” processes to
>> explain the capacity for agency.  Agency – or at least *hierarchical
>> regulation *is a basic property of biological systems. Even single
>> celled organisms are self-regulating systems.  The complexity of
>> self-regulation increases as we move up phylogenetic levels of complexity.
>> At some point, the capacity to represent one’s environs (and indeed, one’s
>> own processes) comes to function as part of the biological self-regulating
>> system itself.  If this is true, then we do not need to invoke mysterious
>> conceptions of “I” or attribute mysterious properties of agency to
>> consciousness to explain human behavior. Consciousness and other
>> psychological processes serve functions other than agency in the human
>> system.  Consciousness and other psychological processes transform the
>> already existing capacities for agency and hierarchical control that
>> already exist in biological systems.  Consciousness likely serves the
>> function of coordinating or integrating information from endogenous and
>> exogenous sources so that the organism can respond to increasingly complex
>> systems of adaptive challenges.
>>
>> And so, the assertion that psychological processes ARE
>> complexly-organized biological processes is not a reductionistic statement
>> (although it can be, in some formulations).  Glucose metabolism is a
>> biological process but not a psychological process (although it can
>> arguably be *influenced* by psychological processes). Consciousness is
>> both a biological *and* a psychological process; it is a biological
>> process with emergent properties that function in the service of the
>> already adaptive self-organizing organismic system as a whole.
>> All My Best,
>>
>> *Michael F. Mascolo, Ph.D.*
>> Academic Director, Compass Program
>> Professor, Department of Psychology
>> Merrimack College, North Andover, MA 01845
>> 978.837.3503 (office)
>> 978.979.8745 (cell)
>>
>> Bridging Political Divides Website: Creating Common Ground
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.creatingcommonground.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=BiXTct126rn5ZsNOJ2THyGg7QkeTiFNc3sNcxpioSYs&s=dnaikad71T93VCsHiaWfPRCcRhnRziPJtxl4YvZAMxo&e=>
>> Blog: Values Matter
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_us_blog_values-2Dmatter&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=BiXTct126rn5ZsNOJ2THyGg7QkeTiFNc3sNcxpioSYs&s=ig-BUTBtjh39H7resrXu6Tu-qsaO7_rLhP7-Bl3vMZQ&e=>
>> Journal: Pedagogy and the Human Sciences
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__scholarworks.merrimack.edu_phs_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=BiXTct126rn5ZsNOJ2THyGg7QkeTiFNc3sNcxpioSYs&s=FzppyMwN986Lq13axaveLOYQ2M6IBG96yT0skmPQ_M0&e=>
>> Author and Coaching Website: www.michaelmascolo.com
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.michaelmascolo.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=BiXTct126rn5ZsNOJ2THyGg7QkeTiFNc3sNcxpioSYs&s=gcLC-6dvIK_0kUcEAhcLfpV6J3kqE1aJGeWoOxj74SA&e=>
>> Academia Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__merrimack.academia.edu_MichaelMascolo&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=BiXTct126rn5ZsNOJ2THyGg7QkeTiFNc3sNcxpioSYs&s=FJ8UplzkVL7xXFlWe_3bGVMwGcFGNSLXltxzbm1PRRE&e=>
>> Constructivist Meetup Series
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.constructivistmeetup.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=BiXTct126rn5ZsNOJ2THyGg7QkeTiFNc3sNcxpioSYs&s=3dJgNYXjbaZ5CTnG-CjJJEm3ToN-Cf-23W6W-4IZWXQ&e=>
>>
>> Things move, persons act. -- Kenneth Burke
>> If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing well. -- Donald Hebb
>>
>> ############################
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 31, 2021, at 4:18 PM, ryanrc111 <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links
>> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
>> safe.
>> ------------------------------
>> Dr. Mascolo,
>>
>> That is a reductionist reasoning that i cannot agree with.
>>
>> When systems are qualitatively different, they deserve qualitative labels
>> that are different.
>>  "everything is just ____________" never has worked in the history of
>> science, and I don't think it will start working now.
>> Biological systems are not merely just physical. Social systems are not
>> merely just biological.
>> They do have different features, different epistemic concerns, and indeed
>> differing levels of action.
>> The universe is digital -quantum particles do not continuously effect
>> large scale systems.
>>  There are clear breaks at different scales, where hardly any activity on
>> scale 1 affects systems on scale 2.
>> the math of differential equations and complexity supports a digital
>> world of level-based actions and level-based systems.
>>
>> You might be interested to read the work of Sandra Mitchell , a top
>> philosopher of science, whom I took coursework from at U Pittsburgh. "
>> IN fact, Sandra is the department chair of the #1 rated philosophy of
>> science dept. in the world, and I learned from her there!
>> She has presented full theories about the qualitative difference between
>> the "sciences". and they are close to Henriques.
>>
>> Sandra Mitchell - Wikipedia
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Sandra-5FMitchell&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=a4GpWt5qlsEqQs-EqHtfR3r3f3Htlu2QNX7L0XB9WSA&s=S4VqQYAPqYN8zdUcJWtT-iY3bYuy__DjE1-CRUeealQ&e=>
>>
>> There is no possibility of reducing social to biological , and so forth.
>> Just because there are causal linkages through the material world, does
>> not mean these systems are qualitatively identical in character.
>> Emergence is very well established, but I do realize there are people who
>> hate it as a concept.
>>  However, Its far easier to defend the qualitative thesis because it
>> doesn't require a magic bullet theory.
>> I have yet see a magic bullet theory that accurately reduces one
>> "science" to another. They have all failed.
>> thus, knowledge still stands as qualitatively different for different
>> systems.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Robert Conan Ryan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 4:03 PM Michael Mascolo <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click
>>> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
>>> content is safe.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Greetings All:
>>>
>>> Thanks for pointing us to this article Gregg.
>>>
>>> I must admit, I agree deeply with Gough’s thesis in this paper.  I think
>>> that terms like “mind” and “mental” should be discarded — except
>>> metaphorical terms to use in everyday discourse.
>>>
>>> Like any term, the meanings of “mind” and “mental” gain their meaning
>>> dialectical through a contrast to what they are *not*.   Different
>>> meanings of a term can be illuminated by understanding the different ways
>>> in which they can be contrasted with what they are not.
>>>
>>> A central meaning of the terms “mind” and “mental” arise from their
>>> contrast with terms like “physical”, “bodily” and “corporeal”.  This
>>> contrast identifies “mind” and “mental” in contradistinction to that which
>>> is material.  It is this meaning that is problematic.  The moment we
>>> suggest that “mind” and “mentality” are in some way “not physical”, we
>>> become deeply entrenched in the intractable mind-body problem: How can
>>> something non-physical “cause” changes in something “physical”, and so
>>> forth.  This problem is intractable.
>>>
>>> In my view, terms like consciousness, experience, meaning,
>>> representation, awareness all refer to psychological processes. The
>>> difference is that these terms do not carry any necessary connotations of
>>> non-corporality.  This is why, in my view, it is preferable to use these
>>> terms rather than “mind” or “mental”.
>>>
>>> From this point of view, psychological processes ARE physical and
>>> material processes — biological processes that function at a higher (yes
>>> higher) level or organization.  There is no mind/body problem because what
>>> people call mind — consciousness, experience, agency — is not
>>> non-physical.  Thus, it makes sense to ask, How does consciousness emerge
>>> in a bio-physical system — where consciousness is NOT assumed to be
>>> non-physical.  In contrast, the question, How does “the mind” emerge from
>>> bio-physical systems suggests that there is something called “mind” that is
>>> “nonphysical”.
>>>
>>> My Best,
>>>
>>> M.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Michael F. Mascolo, Ph.D.*
>>> Academic Director, Compass Program
>>> Professor, Department of Psychology
>>> Merrimack College, North Andover, MA 01845
>>> 978.837.3503 (office)
>>> 978.979.8745 (cell)
>>>
>>> Bridging Political Divides Website: Creating Common Ground
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.creatingcommonground.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=yR78h67WTt--sRzIZIN2948JxfpkaVqtp2CKS4l3p6g&s=wbQHy-km9ZamhneRh-j419humCnbwn3N8TNk9Sf1W0s&e=>
>>> Blog: Values Matter
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.psychologytoday.com_us_blog_values-2Dmatter&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=yR78h67WTt--sRzIZIN2948JxfpkaVqtp2CKS4l3p6g&s=Rxk4SxQTODZW19gdIp9UwwsXxrwYmXBnNLVOA_MsFlQ&e=>
>>> Journal: Pedagogy and the Human Sciences
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__scholarworks.merrimack.edu_phs_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=yR78h67WTt--sRzIZIN2948JxfpkaVqtp2CKS4l3p6g&s=TZ6zu3gYBpGnc-qth35P0K2ja09V8ek0yZeb7b9RJX4&e=>
>>> Author and Coaching Website: www.michaelmascolo.com
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.michaelmascolo.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=yR78h67WTt--sRzIZIN2948JxfpkaVqtp2CKS4l3p6g&s=RL_7xz7ooeAUoUwKBhSOce0-I_E53OAudK0rqrgCLxQ&e=>
>>> Academia Home Page
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>>> Constructivist Meetup Series
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.constructivistmeetup.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=yR78h67WTt--sRzIZIN2948JxfpkaVqtp2CKS4l3p6g&s=DOR19Cpta4Old-RNx6bEYIXm4AV594j23SqBnPOLr4Y&e=>
>>>
>>> Things move, persons act. -- Kenneth Burke
>>> If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing well. -- Donald Hebb
>>>
>>> On Aug 31, 2021, at 1:55 PM, Henriques, Gregg - henriqgx <
>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> Although we hardly need more evidence for the Enlightenment Gap’s claim
>>> that there is profound confusion regarding the relationship between matter
>>> and mind in modern systems of understanding, here is yet another article
>>> that makes the point, with the assertion that we should discard the
>>> concepts of mental and the mind all together:
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aeon.co_essays_why-2Dtheres-2Dno-2Dsuch-2Dthing-2Das-2Dthe-2Dmind-2Dand-2Dnothing-2Dis-2Dmental&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=1fD5Cz7I-mSSnq257AeSpb1d95_hrHL1IfMcO2dXF2Y&s=gEJyKyBQYFL6tfqOb31Blswxctr6pozxMMF5Pddd1HE&e= 
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aeon.co_essays_why-2Dtheres-2Dno-2Dsuch-2Dthing-2Das-2Dthe-2Dmind-2Dand-2Dnothing-2Dis-2Dmental&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=yR78h67WTt--sRzIZIN2948JxfpkaVqtp2CKS4l3p6g&s=Dfn6DlF75Im2bhzy3L3-GEbx5Z5o-fxg-rve0zrNRF0&e=>
>>>
>>> Since there are several new people on the UTOK list, I will take this
>>> opportunity state what many here already know, which is that the central
>>> feature of UTOK is that it affords us a new, different and much richer
>>> metaphysical vocabulary for the domain of the mental. Indeed, my current
>>> book is on how the UTOK solves the problem of psychology by affording us
>>> clarity about the ontology of the mental. (summarized here
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__medium.com_unified-2Dtheory-2Dof-2Dknowledge_a-2Dnew-2Dapproach-2Dto-2Dthe-2Dscience-2Dof-2Dpsychology-2D66f2042e8c32&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=yR78h67WTt--sRzIZIN2948JxfpkaVqtp2CKS4l3p6g&s=RHhx_9mTU72UuJ8sUvEHUjOQsb-X_FZj-E_bUj5mNy4&e=>
>>> ).
>>>
>>> Because I want practice streamlining this, here is the basic summary:
>>> First, via the ToK System’s divisions of complexification, it gives us the
>>> category capital “M” Mind, which is a tier of complex adaptive behaviors in
>>> nature. Specifically, it is the adaptive behaviors exhibited by complex
>>> animals with brains that produce a functional effect on the
>>> animal-environment relationship. These are the set of mental behaviors.
>>>
>>> Second, via the Map of Mind, we divide these mental behaviors first into
>>> the neurocognitive processes within the nervous system (Mind1a) that can be
>>> tracked by things like fMRIs, and the overt activities of animals that can
>>> be observed (Mind1b).
>>>
>>> Mind2 is used to denote the interior epistemological space that is
>>> subjective conscious experience that can only be accessed from the inside
>>> and cannot be accessed directly from the outside. This divide is called the
>>> epistemological gap. No camera or any other device we can consider allows
>>> us to directly experience the Mind2 of another. The most interesting
>>> possible exception to this I have seen is the Logan Twins who are conjoined
>>> at the head, and share some brain domains. Even here, however, they
>>> experience the world via their own epistemological portal and the way they
>>> describe sharing thoughts is akin to talking.
>>>
>>> Speaking of talking, this is the domain of Mind3. Talking flows through
>>> the interior and exterior without losing its form. It is a shared
>>> intersubjective space. Mind3a is when it is private speech, Mind3b is when
>>> it is translated across the barrier of the skin in some other medium.
>>>
>>> Finally, regarding UTOK’s solution to this world knot, it should also be
>>> noted that science is anchored into the language game of behavior and the
>>> exterior epistemological position. The ToK represents a behavioral systemic
>>> map of nature. Our subjective idiographic point of view is different. It is
>>> represented by the iQuad Coin.
>>>
>>> Thus, my reply to the article is to agree that it makes an important
>>> point, but it is laughable that (a) we can just stop using the terms and
>>> (b) that words like cognitive, psychiatric and psychological are fine even
>>> though mind and mental are hopeless. What is needed is a proper descriptive
>>> metaphysical system that is in accordance with natural science ontology
>>> that affords us clarity about the various domains of the mental and the
>>> ways they emerged and interface.
>>>
>>> This essay is mental in the sense that it is an example of Mind3b
>>> behavior that operates at the Cultural Person plane of existence, and
>>> functions to network propositions together to legitimize a version of is
>>> and ought.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Gregg
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________
>>> Gregg Henriques, Ph.D.
>>> Professor
>>> Department of Graduate Psychology
>>> 216 Johnston Hall
>>> MSC 7401
>>> James Madison University
>>> Harrisonburg, VA 22807
>>> (540) 568-7857 (phone)
>>> (540) 568-4747 (fax)
>>>
>>>
>>> *Be that which enhances dignity and well-being with integrity.*
>>> Check out the Unified Theory Of Knowledge homepage at:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwIFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=1fD5Cz7I-mSSnq257AeSpb1d95_hrHL1IfMcO2dXF2Y&s=f6DtHrXZkLtx9PJU8B6aNUJ2BSZk_ilyoPk13x63bM8&e= 
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=yR78h67WTt--sRzIZIN2948JxfpkaVqtp2CKS4l3p6g&s=y1OHXcYoLS1rcGRNFEhrIOqM1t09lXA69XKC98X5Ms8&e=>
>>>
>>>
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-- 
Wishing you WELLth
Gien
Future Ancestor

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