Here is a discussion between Robert Ryaan nad Nora Bateson. There are 
some real issues that need to be grappled with and put into context, but 
it odes feel like the baby has gone out with the bathwater.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_8ZNPE4spRok&d=DwICaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fQILl_hOmU-m86RsdT8i8ZoWYQWsrmP9Ed7rYLP7fs8&s=OTfEjs0tM93zXSyUlZZP5MM4W8guNGRokzT9F6L7-kM&e=  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_8ZNPE4spRok&d=DwICaQ&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=HPo1IXYDhKClogP-UOpybo6Cfxxz-jIYBgjO2gOz4-A&m=fQILl_hOmU-m86RsdT8i8ZoWYQWsrmP9Ed7rYLP7fs8&s=OTfEjs0tM93zXSyUlZZP5MM4W8guNGRokzT9F6L7-kM&e=  >




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