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Hi Victor,

 

  Thanks for this.

 

  I agree with the basic sentiment. That is, stage theories are dangerous when arranged in a hierarchy that lays out a simple “growth to goodness” formula and suggests that some people are better or more highly developed than others. It is a recipe for trouble and results in much bathwater.

 

  At the same time, the stage theories of Piaget, Michael Commons, and even Wilber, clearly have value, at least IMO. Thus, there is a baby in there. In UTOK, I tend to emphasize the broad human psychological developmental view of: child, adult, sage. The first is “pre-conventional” and engages in concrete justifications. The second is a conventional socialized agent who has the full capacities of a person. The third is post-conventional and enters into a trans-egoic state of justification. Note, if one starts to compete amongst the sages to see who the higher sage, we have regressed into conventional egoic justification.

 

  At the societal level, I use the meta-justificatory values of dignity and well-being with integrity to evaluate where societies are ethically. That is, to the extent that a society cultivates dignity and well-being with integrity is better than societies that do not. The modern Nordic societies are better than Hitler’s Nazism. That is hardly a profound insight. But the point is that there is a universal moral-ethical backbone that can be used to evaluate societies.  

 

Finally, I like Lene Rachel Andersen’s take on metamodernity. Properly interpreted, it lays out four cultural sensibilities in terms of oral indigenous, traditional, modern, and postmodern and highlights emphases and values in all four and orients toward a metamodern sensibility embraces the best of these. A similar view is expressed by Steve McIntosh in his Developmental Politics.

 

Best,
Gregg   

 

From: tree of knowledge system discussion <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Victor MacGill
Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2021 6:30 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Video on Stages - Robert Ryan and Nora Bateson

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


Here is a discussion between Robert Ryaan nad Nora Bateson. There are some real issues that need to be grappled with and put into context, but it odes feel like the baby has gone out with the bathwater.

 

https://youtu.be/8ZNPE4spRok

 

 

 

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